Worrying times.

[BoldonLad]

I was being sarcastic. When there are calls for paying per mile as opposed to per gallon, I wonder if the main motovation is to get the goverment to fund a ridiculously complex and costly tracking system that the big consultancies can get a slice of.

Or when we all have electric cars, a complex way to tax the electrons used for charging cars, as opposed to boiling your kettle

 

[Profpointy]

Or when we all have electric cars, a complex way to tax the electrons used for charging cars, as opposed to boiling your kettle

Well there is that I guess.

 

[Illaveago]

But fuel is a flat rate cost: the 10,000th mile costs exactly the same as the 1,000th mile. For road pricing to work, it has to be steeply progressive, otherwise the rich who contribute most emissions will be able to carry on business as usual whilst the poor who make a negligible difference to climate change will be forced to quit driving altogether.
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Duty on fuel is much simpler. The more you use the more you pay . The rich are likely to pay more due to their expensive cars burning more.
Road pricing would need a lot of infrastructure to monitor and collect . Would it be a standard rate for all vehicles regardless of their fuel consumption ? Would electronic devices have to be fitted into vehicles? If it relied on number plate recognition false plates and cloning could take place .

 

[Andy in Germany]

Duty on fuel is much simpler. The more you use the more you pay . The rich are likely to pay more due to their expensive cars burning more.
Road pricing would need a lot of infrastructure to monitor and collect . Would it be a standard rate for all vehicles regardless of their fuel consumption ? Would electronic devices have to be fitted into vehicles? If it relied on number plate recognition false plates and cloning could take place .

It's also rather crude. I think the examples you cite show how complex the problem is, and that fuel taxation isn't up to the job. Someone driving a clapped out Opel between two villages to get to work because there isn't a public transport option, pays as much if not more than than someone driving an efficient high end hybrid alongside a public transport corridor in a city.

If you base the price on the value of space this is reversed, so you pay more to use a car where there are alternatives or there is congestion, even if you travel a shorter distance, and people who have to use a car in a rural area aren't penalised, as they currently are.

 

[Badger_Boom]

Or when we all have electric cars, a complex way to tax the electrons used for charging cars, as opposed to boiling your kettle

If it involves the amount of work and stress doing even my small bit of consultancy work on highways jobs than I doubt it.

 

[fossyant]

Or when we all have electric cars, a complex way to tax the electrons used for charging cars, as opposed to boiling your kettle

Charging leccy cars is heavily subsidised at present from home, 5p kwh, rather than the going rate of nearly 20p. There is only one way folks. I'll stick to commuting by bike.

 

[BoldonLad]

It's also rather crude. I think the examples you cite show how complex the problem is, and that fuel taxation isn't up to the job. Someone driving a clapped out Opel between two villages to get to work because there isn't a public transport option, pays as much if not more than than someone driving an efficient high end hybrid alongside a public transport corridor in a city.

If you base the price on the value of space this is reversed, so you pay more to use a car where there are alternatives or there is congestion, even if you travel a shorter distance, and people who have to use a car in a rural area aren't penalised, as they currently are.

Perhaps, it depends on the objective? ie, is the objective to reduce emissions, or, to tax the "rich" ?

 

[BoldonLad]

Charging leccy cars is heavily subsidised at present from home, 5p kwh, rather than the going rate of nearly 20p. There is only one way folks. I'll stick to commuting by bike.

I don't commute any more (retired), but, my daily commute was often 60-100 miles, a bit beyond my cycling threshold, even when I was younger

 

[Andy in Germany]

Perhaps, it depends on the objective? ie, is the objective to reduce emissions, or, to tax the "rich" ?

In most road pricing models the clue is in the name: pricing of roads, to make it fairer and pay for the resource being used.

I remember one railway manager describing most road networks as Communism in action: they're paid for by the state and given free to anyone willing to queue. This is market economics applied to road space.

 

[BoldonLad]

In most road pricing models the clue is in the name: pricing of roads, to make it fairer and pay for the resource being used.

I remember one railway manager describing most road networks as Communism in action: they're paid for by the state and given free to anyone willing to queue. This is market economics applied to road space.

A bit like our NHS ?

A point of order, "the State" does not have any money to pay for anything, except that which it takes from it's citizens in taxation.

 

[Milzy]

It's also rather crude. I think the examples you cite show how complex the problem is, and that fuel taxation isn't up to the job. Someone driving a clapped out Opel between two villages to get to work because there isn't a public transport option, pays as much if not more than than someone driving an efficient high end hybrid alongside a public transport corridor in a city.

If you base the price on the value of space this is reversed, so you pay more to use a car where there are alternatives or there is congestion, even if you travel a shorter distance, and people who have to use a car in a rural area aren't penalised, as they currently are.

You really are splitting hairs now and been pedantic. A clapped out old banger will be more economical than a full on sports car or pick up truck 4x4 etc.

 

[Profpointy]

I'm far from happy with a scheme that effectively encourages rural motoring by making such travel relatively cheaper. Nor for that matter a scheme whereby the rich can now sail through because pesky poor people are priced off the busier roads. Rationing by traffic queues somehow seems more equitable

 

[BoldonLad]

I'm far from happy with a scheme that effectively encourages rural motoring by making such travel relatively cheaper. Nor for that matter a scheme whereby the rich can now sail through because pesky poor people are priced off the busier roads. Rationing by traffic queues somehow seems more equitable

Rationing by Queue, a truly British solution

 

[Dolorous Edd]

I remember one railway manager describing most road networks as Communism in action: they're paid for by the state and given free to anyone willing to queue. This is market economics applied to road space.

Except that under "Communism in Action", there wouldn't be a queue because hardly anybody would have a car.

 

[Andy in Germany]

You really are splitting hairs now and been pedantic. A clapped out old banger will be more economical than a full on sports car or pick up truck 4x4 etc.

This is also true, it was a deliberately extreme example to illustrate that expensive cars aren't always gas guzzlers, so the current system is a rather blunt instrument and can't really be described as a "pay as you go" system because there are far too many variables.

Equally, a pickup in a rural area is more likely to be necessary than a pickup in a city. Not inevitable, but more likely.