Would any cycle helmet have helped here?

[ufkacbln]

If it's a full-face motorbike job, perhaps.

The ones I've met have been great company - even when I have been helmeted.

Is that a new euphemism?

I went out last night, had a curry and a few beers, but ended up with a few too many......I really got helmeted

 

[srw]

It is more likely that you'll have a head injury at slow speed after drinking.

 

[mjr]

Why does this subject make people who like to wear helmets so irrationally angry?

They like to help to confirm the theory that crash helmet wearing is linked to poor decision making which leads to more crashing?

 

[mjr]

I ride in the sticks as well. As @mjray says, my experience is that helmeted riders are actually a minority.

I live in the fens. If anything, fewer wear helmets than in town: mainly racers on the carriageway, people heading to/from the nearby MTB track or TT loop and a couple of humourless commuters who never say hello. Other commuters, people on shoppers, kids, exercisers and so on all ride free. I've never taken counts out here in the villages, but it was about 14% when I did a count in town a few months ago and more wear there.

 

[Crandoggler]

Read back my friend. I asked an open and honest question as to why people didn't wear them. I have no prior knowledge about the subject, nor state that I do, I approve of wearing one as a safety aid. I never said they should be worn, nor mentioned any negativity against it. I was provoked into a response.

I absolutely do not care if you want to wear one or not. I was simply asking why people think they shouldn't. I'm clearly not knowledgable on the subject, which others are ignoring and continuing their loathing of my lack of knowledge.

Maybe it's the people who just have to be different, to prove something to their little world, that they are indeed that beautiful raindrop, as individual as a snowflake and stick it to the man when he says wear a helmet.

I will continue to wear one, I will not preach to anyone to wear one. If you want to stir and provoke people on a forum then that's great. I, however, know none of you or have any reason to have an Internet, or forum status as you 'lot' so clearly do.

Good day.

 

[benb]

I was provoked into a response

People disagreeing with you, quite civilly IMO, is not a provocation.
You owe some people an apology for calling them pricks.

 

[mjr]

I never said they should be worn, nor mentioned any negativity against it. [...] I was simply asking why people think they shouldn't.

I tried my best to give a dispassionate answer, but https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/would-any-cycle-helmet-have-helped-here.183987/post-3835701 really wasn't "simply asking". It opened with amazement, claimed protection in excess of that offered by an EN1078 crash helmet and assumed three spurious reasons for not wearing one. I tried not to criticise that much in the initial reply, but I'm not surprised if it irritated anyone.

Maybe it's the people who just have to be different

Yes, exactly: non-wearers are so determined to be different by being part of the 66% of UK cyclists who don't wear crash helmets (source: ETSC, June 2015, PIN Flash Report 29: Making walking and cycling on Europe’s roads safer - Table 15). Being part of a supermajority always makes me feel such an individual(!)

 

[Mugshot]

Read back my friend. I asked an open and honest question as to why people didn't wear them. I have no prior knowledge about the subject, nor state that I do, I approve of wearing one as a safety aid. I never said they should be worn, nor mentioned any negativity against it. I was provoked into a response.

I absolutely do not care if you want to wear one or not. I was simply asking why people think they shouldn't. I'm clearly not knowledgable on the subject, which others are ignoring and continuing their loathing of my lack of knowledge.

Maybe it's the people who just have to be different, to prove something to their little world, that they are indeed that beautiful raindrop, as individual as a snowflake and stick it to the man when he says wear a helmet.

I will continue to wear one, I will not preach to anyone to wear one. If you want to stir and provoke people on a forum then that's great. I, however, know none of you or have any reason to have an Internet, or forum status as you 'lot' so clearly do.

Good day.

There was a thread here a while ago which basically asked the same thing, here's a link to it;

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/why-wouldnt-you-wear-a-helmet.180820/

If you want to see lots more information about helmets than you can shake a stick at this website is worth having a dip in and out of;

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/

 

[SteveF]

Yes, exactly: non-wearers are so determined to be different by being part of the 66% of UK cyclists who don't wear crash helmets (source: ETSC, June 2015, PIN Flash Report 29: Making walking and cycling on Europe’s roads safer - Table 15). Being part of a supermajority always makes me feel such an individual(!)

That PIN makes interesting reading... it also makes a recommendation for more helmet wearing?

In this section:

2.4 Passive safety for cyclists

While neither helmets nor reflective luminous clothing are part of the bicycle, they are a part of the way in which cyclists are noticed by other traffic participants. Cycle helmets are designed to protect the cyclist’s head and skull in the event of collision. Helmets sold in the EU have to conform with international standards which prescribe the protection they need to offer. Current EU helmet standards requires impacts of up to around 15-20km/h to be absorbed.

Head and brain injuries sustained by cyclists could be reduced by bringing cycle helmets into general use. According to German Road In-Depth Accident Study (GIDAS), use of helmets might result in 33% reductions of cyclists head injuries of severity AIS3+, isolated soft tissue injuries by 15% and skull and base of skull fractures by 46%.56

Recently conducted research in Ireland was based on 37 fatal cyclist collision scenarios. In primary impacts between cyclists and cars the main areas of injury are to the torso or lower limbs and a helmet offers little extra protection except when a car runs into the back of a cyclist thus causing the head to strike the windscreen or bonnet. The helmet then provides protection by reducing forces on the head. Most head injuries were found to occur at secondary impact, usually with the ground and as long as the impact occurs against an area of the head that is above a line near to the rim of the helmet, the helmet provided significant protection. In 26 out of 32 secondary impact cases, helmets would have reduced the Head Injury Criterion scores (HIC-scores) on the cyclist’s head by approximately 75%.57

Not all the countries collect data on cyclists’ helmet wearing rates. However, among those who could provide the figures the largest proportions of cyclists wearing helmets are in Ireland (46%), Switzerland (43%), Finland (41%), Sweden (37%), Estonia (31%), Austria (30%) and Denmark (28%). In Germany 15% of cyclists are wearing helmets, and in Poland and Latvia 12%.

Some European countries are regulating obligatory use of cycle helmets but the extent of legislations vary from country to country (Table 1).

56 O. Dietmar, W. Birgitt, (2012), Comparison of Injury Situation of Pedestrians and Cyclists in Car Frontal Impacts and Assessment of Influence Parameter on Throw Distance and Injury Severity.

57 K. Fingleton, M. Gilchrist (2013), UCA Dublin, A study of the protective capabilities of cycle-helmets in collisions involving motor-vehicles based on computer simulated reconstructions.PIN Flash 29 Making walking and cycling on Europe’s roads safer | 29


Recommendations to the EU

Introduce minimum requirements for cycle lighting and reflective elements.

Revise standards for testing bicycle helmets to offer high levels of protection.

Recommendations to Member States

Encourage helmet wearing among cyclists.

Encourage cyclists to have adequate lighting when cycling in the dark.

 

[mjr]

That PIN makes interesting reading... it also makes a recommendation for more helmet wearing?

Yes but only to encourage and also to revise testing so that crash helmets are better than the current ones. Those are the final recommendations, apparently based mainly on unpublished simulation-based evidence that ETSC haven't yet answered my email about where to obtain it. Someone else also said they're trying to track down that evidence through other routes, but the previous thread was closed because it had descended into insults before they got it. It's pretty weak and looks like an afterthought section, doesn't it? I can also cite their data without agreeing with the conclusions they draw.

The main recommendations listed in the overview are things like better motor vehicle features, 20mph, physical separation and HGV restrictions - crash helmets don't merit inclusion there.

 

[Justinslow]

Is it Lycra clad recreational cyclists you mostly see? There is a strong take up of helmet wearing in this group, probably because it is part of the image. For other groups, such as older factory workers say, the position is different.

Yeah probably, but us that because a lot of people are just lazy and can't be bothered to wear one rather than actually thinking about the reasons for not wearing one?
I'm surprised there's fewer helmet wearers about than non wearers given all the pro racers on TV and in the media pretty much all wear helmets, even Steve Abraham wears a helmet, why?
People generally follow their "heroes", it does seem strange that wearing helmets is not followed even though the "heroes" wear them.
I really do think for the vast majority - they just don't think they need them so don't wear them, simple.

 

[Mugshot]

even Steve Abraham wears a helmet, why?

If you're talking about his HAMR attempt, he has to, it's in the rules.

 

[srw]

even Steve Abraham wears a helmet, why?

Because it's mandatory for the event he's currently taking part in. Just as it is for most of the events that the pros ride in.

It is, however, worth asking whether those mandating helmet use have any evidence to back up that mandate.

 

[Justinslow]

He doesn't always. He's been required to wear one for his Tommy Goodwin record attempt.

Ok, whys that?

 

[SteveF]

The main recommendations listed in the overview are things like better motor vehicle features, 20mph, physical separation and HGV restrictions - crash helmets don't merit inclusion there

Agree - they are the main recs..

Any view on the German and Irish research they quote or is that what you emailed them in regard to?