Would any cycle helmet have helped here?

[mjr]

Yeah probably, but us that because a lot of people are just lazy and can't be bothered to wear one rather than actually thinking about the reasons for not wearing one?
I'm surprised there's fewer helmet wearers about than non wearers given all the pro racers on TV and in the media pretty much all wear helmets

There's two separate bits there:

Firstly, the rules say that most pro racers have to wear them (UK time trials are one of the few competitions where they don't AFAIK) and most are part-sponsored by helmet companies so they wear them even when not competing. Some of the pros don't wear their crash helmets properly (dangling chin straps and so on) or all the time (Contador was spotted riding for a bit without his at some race recently - might even have been the Giro?). The start of mandatory wearing for racing didn't explain any change in numbers of deaths in the top level of racing.

Secondly, the media is completely unrepresentative about this. There are various theories - including, flawed risk assessments for insurance, kow-towing to the non-cycling nutters who think people should dress in builder chic while cycling, helmet makers offering advertising money, even to please motor makers who want to make cycling look dangerous so that more people want to buy cars - but I don't think any investigative journalist has yet dug into this mystery, so they remain only theories!

I think it's quite right that many people who just ride bikes have never thought about why not to wear crash helmets in detail. It's more likely they just think they're relatively expensive for bike stuff (you can buy a heck of a lot of inner tubes for that money - even getting a hub gear overhauled is cheaper than most adult ones), a faff to use and keep and most people who ride bikes don't wear them so why would they? Long may that continue!

 

[mjr]

Any view on the German and Irish research they quote or is that what you emailed them in regard to?

Neither seem to be published. I found the web page of one of the authors of the Irish one but that paper is not mentioned in their publication history or UC Dublin's (or UCA's but I think that's a typo). From the titles and descriptions, it sounds like the German one is comparing injuries and may not consider whether crash helmets would have helped, while the Irish one seems to be computer simulations which will only be as good as the models used - I don't know if they modelled tougher-than-current helmets and that's why ETSC recommend toughening the standards. Maybe they want to get us back to at least 1995's Snell B95 standard?

 

[ufkacbln]

Yeah probably, but us that because a lot of people are just lazy and can't be bothered to wear one rather than actually thinking about the reasons for not wearing one?
I'm surprised there's fewer helmet wearers about than non wearers given all the pro racers on TV and in the media pretty much all wear helmets, even Steve Abraham wears a helmet, why?
People generally follow their "heroes", it does seem strange that wearing helmets is not followed even though the "heroes" wear them.
I really do think for the vast majority - they just don't think they need them so don't wear them, simple.

The same is absolutely true for motor sport.... which makes it rather a weak argument to promote helmet use

Lewis Hamilton is always seen on TV wearing a helmet (and fireproof overalls) ... why is there no surprise that the average motorist is not rushing to the shops to buy helmets and fireproof clothing?

Surely all the above arguments are equally valid for motorists... or are drivers simply too lazy to wear helmets and fireproof their clothing wear one rather than actually thinking about the reasons for not wearing one

 

[mjr]

This is often quoted by organisers of events when they're asked why they're insisting on helmets - but often they've never asked their insurers.

Indeed. A common flaw seems to be that the insurer simply asks for a risk assessment and the organiser puts in what they think the insurer wants to hear. For all they know, the insurer may be charging them higher premiums because of some evidence that crash helmet wearers take more risks...

As far as I know, CTC and LCC group and event insurances don't require helmets. My travel insurance doesn't either but that's from a German insurer so hardly surprising to me.

 

[winjim]

I'm surprised there's fewer helmet wearers about than non wearers given all the pro racers on TV and in the media pretty much all wear helmets, even Steve Abraham wears a helmet, why?
People generally follow their "heroes", it does seem strange that wearing helmets is not followed even though the "heroes" wear them.

Not all cyclists are pro racer wannabes.

 

[Justinslow]

The same is absolutely true for motor sport.... which makes it rather a weak argument to promote helmet use

Lewis Hamilton is always seen on TV wearing a helmet (and fireproof overalls) ... why is there no surprise that the average motorist is not rushing to the shops to buy helmets and fireproof clothing?

Surely all the above arguments are equally valid for motorists... or are drivers simply too lazy to wear helmets and fireproof their clothing wear one rather than actually thinking about the reasons for not wearing one

No no no, that's just a daft comparison, we don't all drive F1 cars!
I follow motorcycle racing and lots of people buy/wear their favourite racers leathers/helmets/bikes.

 

[SteveF]

Apologies if this strays off topic but it is linked to the PIN @mjray and I were discussing earlier... one section has some interesting recommendations:


2.3 Pedestrian and cyclist behaviour

Recommendations to Member States

• Support and promote research into effective and innovative methods of enforcing traffic rules for pedestrians and cyclists.
  
  
• Ensure that cyclists and pedestrians have a minimum level of traffic education and awareness of the risks imposed by the current traffic system through training and education.
  
• Introduce and enforce sanctions for pedestrians and cyclists for exposing themselves or other road users to unnecessary risks.
  
  
• Encourage a Zero Tolerance approach to use of drugs and alcohol to cover all road users, including cyclists.
  
  
• Encourage research on road safety implications of electrically assisted cycles.
  
  
• Maintain the current definition of pedelecs – with a designed speed of 25km/h and a maximum power of the electric assist of 0.20kW is cut when the vehicle reaches its designed speed.
  

 

[Justinslow]

Not all cyclists are pro racer wannabes.

I did mention Steve Abraham so as not to assume it was just racer wannabes.

 

[Lemond]

I don't know anyone who cycles who doesn't wear a helmet.
I know quite a few cyclists.
I see very few cyclists on the road without helmets.
Non wearers are in the minority (in East Anglia)

Just some statements by me. No idea if it means anything!

Would have to agree. The vast majority of the cyclists I see cycling around this part of Suffolk wear a helmet.

 

[mjr]

It is, however, worth asking whether those mandating helmet use have any evidence to back up that mandate.

Has that ever worked for you? My experience is https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/challenging-event-crash-helmet-rules.185192/ and I'd love to know how it should be done.

 

[winjim]

I did mention Steve Abraham so as not to assume it was just racer wannabes.

Steve who?

 

[mjr]

Would have to agree. The vast majority of the cyclists I see cycling around this part of Suffolk wear a helmet.

Yeah, but your location is "Sunny Suffolk" which is clearly a fantasy place!

No no no, that's just a daft comparison, we don't all drive F1 cars!
I follow motorcycle racing and lots of people buy/wear their favourite racers leathers/helmets/bikes.

We don't all ride racing bikes either, yet there are nobbers who want a law saying I must be fined if I don't wear a crash helmet while riding my Dutch bike or a recumbent or ...

I'm quite happy for some people to deck themselves out in aero helmet, elastane superhero suit and nappy like the pro racers, but it's crazy to think the majority of people will want to go to those extremes.

 

[Justinslow]

Yeah, but your location is "Sunny Suffolk" which is clearly a fantasy place!


We don't all ride racing bikes either, yet there are nobbers who want a law saying I must be fined if I don't wear a crash helmet while riding my Dutch bike or a recumbent or ...

I'm quite happy for some people to deck themselves out in aero helmet, elastane superhero suit and nappy like the pro racers, but it's crazy to think the majority of people will want to go to those extremes.

Did I say that?
The trouble with some of you lot is you're so so quick to jump down the throat of anybody who may have a differing view to yourselves, bit like the "Lewis Hamilton" reference - farcical.
Live and let live, if you want to wear one - wear one, if you don't.....errrr......dont.

 

[Justinslow]

Yeah, but your location is "Sunny Suffolk" which is clearly a fantasy place!


We don't all ride racing bikes either, yet there are nobbers who want a law saying I must be fined if I don't wear a crash helmet while riding my Dutch bike or a recumbent or ...

I'm quite happy for some people to deck themselves out in aero helmet, elastane superhero suit and nappy like the pro racers, but it's crazy to think the majority of people will want to go to those extremes.

And by the way, you just slated one whole section of cyclists, really useful thing to do, cyclists against cyclists.

 

[Lemond]

Yeah, but your location is "Sunny Suffolk" which is clearly a fantasy place!

Even Delia knows which side of the border to live on.