£2000 vs £5000 and above Carbon bike performance

[Profpointy]

Well, both really, because they amount to the same thing - ie someone's belief or opinion.

OK, let's try again - by "subjective" do you mean there's a difference but it's one of taste / choice but still real, or are you suggesting that it's all in the mind, albeit still some people's opinion?

 

[Profpointy]

Well, both really, because they amount to the same thing - ie someone's belief or opinion.

PS - Old Pulteney is the way forward...

Good choice on whisky -

... I'm out on the other discussion as you're clearly just being too clever for me

 

[Citius]

OK, let's try again - by "subjective" do you mean there's a difference but it's one of taste / choice but still real, or are you suggesting that it's all in the mind, albeit still some people's opinion?

Not sure I follow. Facts are objective - opinions are subjective.

 

[Profpointy]

Not sure I follow. Facts are objective - opinions are subjective.

I'm just trying to work out if you are rubbishing subjectivity: "it's all in the mind" or whether a subjective judgement in this sort of case has any meaning or value in your view.

Tried to use the whisky tasting example as it seemed clear enough, whilst the hi-fi cables example is clearly (to me) an imaginary difference.

 

[Citius]

I'm just trying to work out if you are rubbishing subjectivity: "it's all in the mind" or whether a subjective judgement in this sort of case has any meaning or value in your view.

I'm saying that a subjective opinion is only relevant to whoever holds it. As an opinion, it is perfectly valid. I would only 'rubbish' it if there was an attempt for that opinion to be presented as fact.

 

[Profpointy]

I'm saying that a subjective opinion is only relevant to whoever holds it. As an opinion, it is perfectly valid. I would only 'rubbish' it if there was an attempt for that opinion to be presented as fact.

OK, I don't really agree with that. In my view some subjective opinions are useful and meaningful to others - Laphroig is peaty, Dallwhinnie is heathery, and in a sense these judgements are factual

Subjective opinions that silver hi fi cables have some magic property or other is simply bollocks - although some argue otherwise.

 

[Citius]

Laphroig is peaty, Dallwhinnie is heathery, and in a sense these judgements are factual

In which case, it's a fact, not an opinion.

 

[bpsmith]

Well, both really, because they amount to the same thing - ie someone's belief or opinion.

PS - Old Pulteney is the way forward...

Strangely, you said Feel was a Science in another thread. Make your mind up.

 

[Citius]

Strangely, you said Feel was a Science in another thread. Make your mind up.

Can you link to where I said that. I'm guessing you misunderstood it. You have form for that kind of thing...

 

[Apollonius]

I really don't think this is a good time for metaphysics, but I am not convinced that "mind" and "the imagined" are the same thing. A long time since I read Popper(and that was negligently and sketchily), but I really can't see how one can judge the "good feelings" a quality bike might give other than subjectively.

 

[Citius]

but I really can't see how one can judge the "good feelings" a quality bike might give other than subjectively

You can't - that's the point.

 

[Apollonius]

That's fine then. The most important choices one makes in a lifetime are subjective after all. Let those with the cash enjoy their luxury bikes.

 

[Winnershsaint]

I am a very average rider. I have a bike which I will admit I cannot do justice to, probably two bikes if I'm really honest. One is worth two and a half times the other. The high performance (lol) engine in both is the same, me. When I bought the 2 grand bike four years ago i was like a dog with two whatsits when I got my Cervelo I was like a dog with two whatsits. In their own time frames, both made me smile. I can't point to any performance gains that I get from the new and more expensive bike, but riding it makes me happy. I'm looking at aero wheels currently, I understand that they won't add too much in speed, but boy they will look good and that will make me smile too. Sometimes I feel that some get hung up on practicalities and value for money when dispensing advice or they simply get off on being condescending and dismissive. Now that wouldn't be a first for an internet forum, would it?

 

[mattobrien]

I'm looking at aero wheels currently, I understand that they won't add too much in speed, but boy they will look good and that will make me smile too.

A good looking bike goes faster. Fact. A good looking bike with a smiling rider, barely a blur as they zoom passed at such a speed.

I want new aero wheels, but I suspect a new kitchen will be required first. And ironically a new kitchen may make me faster, as i may get more time out to ride once the kitchen is done...

 

[Accy cyclist]

Just out of interest, do you think this 5 grand bike is a bargain at less than half price?
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m7b0s6p5166/CANNONDALE-SUPERSIX-EVO-HI-MOD-RED-RACING-2013

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/...dale-supersix-evo-hi-mod-red-racing-12-46892/