All about wheels and tyres

[User6179]

My apologies, I think it was @Eddy

Yep bought a Rose open pro/ 105 hub 36 spoke wheelset , back wheel needed trued when it arrived then the NDS spokes all loosened , then I tightened everything up and put some loctite on in the nipples, then one spoke snapped and the wheel turned into an egg shaped object , got replacement spoke but could not get the egg shapeness out the wheel , it is now sitting in the loft , used for a couple of months only .

Will stick it on ebay for parts, probably make a profit

 

[Justinslow]

Yep bought a Rose open pro/ 105 hub 36 spoke wheelset , back wheel needed trued when it arrived then the NDS spokes all loosened , then I tightened everything up and put some loctite on in the nipples, then one spoke snapped and the wheel turned into an egg shaped object , got replacement spoke but could not get the egg shapeness out the wheel , it is now sitting in the loft , used for a couple of months only .

Will stick it on ebay for parts, probably make a profit

Quality, I'll stick with my superstars!

 

[User6179]

Quality, I'll stick with my superstars!

To be fair , the rear wheel on my Caadx had similiar problems with ND spokes loosening , my mavic ones also twist on ND side but I think the nipples twist with them so dont loosen .

 

[Spoked Wheels]

Yep bought a Rose open pro/ 105 hub 36 spoke wheelset , back wheel needed trued when it arrived then the NDS spokes all loosened , then I tightened everything up and put some loctite on in the nipples, then one spoke snapped and the wheel turned into an egg shaped object , got replacement spoke but could not get the egg shapeness out the wheel , it is now sitting in the loft , used for a couple of months only .

Will stick it on ebay for parts, probably make a profit

Wow Eddy, I knew there was a bit of inconsistency on the built quality but I didn't think it was so bad.

The OP also mentioned to concentrate on tyres that offer quality ride and speed. I look along those lines for my summer tyres but winter, commuting and touring tyres require other factors to be considered, better puncture protection being one of them.

Bikes costing > £1200 come with better wheels. ... I've seen a few poor stock wheels but nothing as poor as Cube a mate purchased a while back, beautiful CF bike that cost > £1500 - I can't remember the exact figure. Everything about those wheels is sh*te.

I think it's difficult to put a price as a guideline, somebody might pay the extra cash and still end that with poor wheels.

The problem is that when one knows nothing about wheels it's easy to conclude you are buying very good wheels. They are beautiful to look at and people associate them with professional racing cyclist when they see so few spokes..... "these must be fast" probably cross through their minds and go for it.

 

[User6179]

Wow Eddy, I knew there was a bit of inconsistency on the built quality but I didn't think it was so bad.

The OP also mentioned to concentrate on tyres that offer quality ride and speed. I look along those lines for my summer tyres but winter, commuting and touring tyres require other factors to be considered, better puncture protection being one of them.

Bikes costing > £1200 come with better wheels. ... I've seen a few poor stock wheels but nothing as poor as Cube a mate purchased a while back, beautiful CF bike that cost > £1500 - I can't remember the exact figure. Everything about those wheels is sh*te.

I think it's difficult to put a price as a guideline, somebody might pay the extra cash and still end that with poor wheels.

The problem is that when one knows nothing about wheels it's easy to conclude you are buying very good wheels. They are beautiful to look at and people associate them with professional racing cyclist when they see so few spokes..... "these must be fast" probably cross through their minds and go for it.

I just want a wheel that does not buckle under my weight

 

[martint235]

Tyres are a weird thing. I ran Schwalbe R1s for a bit. Grippy, incredibly quick but absolutely allergic to damp. Unless the road was completely dry, they'd puncture. I once got 3 in about a mile heading out of East London. I couldn't cycle quick enough to make up my puncture repair time

 

[Roadhump]

I was going to start a thread entitled "So much for the great Schwalbe Marathon Plus" but I found this one so I'll vent here instead. I got a puncture today in the front wheel which was running on one of these supposedly virtually puncture proof tyres, fitted less than 500 miles ago - last month, I wouldn't mind but the tread was hardly worn at all, and looked "as new", and I fitted it after having a puncture in the same wheel which had been fitted with a............Schwalbe Marathon Plus, okay that one had done 5,000 miles but only 500 miles on my new one, what's all that about??????? A piece of glass went right through, then as I tried to fix it, my Specialized air tool fell to pieces and broke the tube valve in the process meaning I was snookered. Okay, the air tool was purely bad luck (or perhaps a poor quality bit of kit) and luckily I was able to call my sister who picked me up, but I am well cheesed off with Schwalbe Marathon not so flipping Plus at the moment.

Question if I may, Having removed the glass, is there anything you should do to make the tyre stronger around the hole or will it always be more vulnerable to further punctures?

Also, I wonder if Schwalbe would consider a refund, especially as this makes a mockery of the supposed extra puncture protection?

 

[martint235]

I was going to start a thread entitled "So much for the great Schwalbe Marathon Plus" but I found this one so I'll vent here instead. I got a puncture today in the front wheel which was running on one of these supposedly virtually puncture proof tyres, fitted less than 500 miles ago - last month, I wouldn't mind but the tread was hardly worn at all, and looked "as new", and I fitted it after having a puncture in the same wheel which had been fitted with a............Schwalbe Marathon Plus, okay that one had done 5,000 miles but only 500 miles on my new one, what's all that about??????? A piece of glass went right through, then as I tried to fix it, my Specialized air tool fell to pieces and broke the tube valve in the process meaning I was snookered. Okay, the air tool was purely bad luck (or perhaps a poor quality bit of kit) and luckily I was able to call my sister who picked me up, but I am well cheesed off with Schwalbe Marathon not so flipping Plus at the moment.

Question if I may, Having removed the glass, is there anything you should do to make the tyre stronger around the hole or will it always be more vulnerable to further punctures?

Also, I wonder if Schwalbe would consider a refund, especially as this makes a mockery of the supposed extra puncture protection?

Schwalbe don't call them puncture proof so probably not.

I had a spate of punctures on my M+ so I've gone back to Durano. Once you don't believe M+ are bomb proof there's no point carrying all that weight.

 

[potsy]

If a piece of glass punctured your M+ just think what it would have done to a mere mortal of a tyre

Nobody has claimed they are puncture proof, maybe you need those solid tyres like Tannus?

 

[Arrowfoot]

ok - let's take some of these in order...



All the difference to what? Once the 'contraption' is moving, wheels and tyres actually make the least difference to your speed, thanks to Newton's laws of motion and the conservation of momentum. Tyre choice and tyre pressure will affect ride quality though.

What are the 'stock' wheels? Completely unfounded statement. For instance, what if the stock wheels are Mavic Aksiums already?



TPI does not define a tyre's weight. And to categorise 150 TPI tyres as having a universal weight of 225g is nonsense.

1) Performance difference between stock tyres and better quality tyres.

• Where in the post did you find the word "speed"? And which part of the post challenges Newton.
• Care to explain why there is no difference in performance between entry level wheels and tyres and the more expensive ones. You can pick any number of variables such rolling resistance, weight, bearings, material etc

2) Most bikes are not sold with Mavic Aksiums or equivalent. Tell me otherwise.
3) Where in the post says that TPI defines a tyre's weight?

 

[Arrowfoot]

I just came to say the prices start below £300. It all depends what you want to spend at the bottom end.

Now I'm off too, I get the feeling this thread might get unpleasant to read.

You know this area well. What would be a decent entry level price for custom wheels for those who are interested.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Tyres are a weird thing. I ran Schwalbe R1s for a bit. Grippy, incredibly quick but absolutely allergic to damp. Unless the road was completely dry, they'd puncture. I once got 3 in about a mile heading out of East London. I couldn't cycle quick enough to make up my puncture repair time

I have to protest when people give out advice like that highlighted in your post. I am sure you mean well but attaching attributes to a tyre like grippy, quick and prone to punctures just perpetuates the many myths about cycling.

1) Grippy: Bicycle tyres come in two varieties a) carbon black and b) silica compound. The former has more grip than the latter in wet and dry but slightly more rolling resistance. Further, unlike car tyres that skid and give audible and tactile notification of doing so, bicycle tyres lose grip precipitously and the slide is unrecoverable. The only way to be sure that one tyre is more grippy than another is to do lean angle testing and most of us are too scared to do it. We stay clear of the critical lean angle and just ride. In that mode you cannot say one tyre is more grippy than another.
2) Quick. Quickness in tyres is function of rolling resistance and is measured in grams of resistance. It is impossible to sense or feel it unless you are riding something way off the scale like a knobbly tyre, a really heavy, thick-rubber tyre or on something like lawn or spaghetti urethane matting. The latter is the stuff you find used as mats in the doorways of some supermarkets. When your trolley hits it you immediately know because it slows it down so much. On bicycle tyres inflated to usable pressures we can't feel it.
3) Puncture resistance. This is a function of tyre thickness, lubrication, tyre location and luck. Thicker tyres resist glass cuts more and often the glass falls out before the 10 or so revolutions required for it to cut through. Thinner tyres don't have that luxury. Wet tyres lubricate the glass and that cuts quicker. Tyre location tells us that rear wheels puncture more than front wheels because the front wheel agitates the glass to temporarily sit upright and cut the rear tyre. Luck is where and when you ride. Obviously the latter means that by sheer statistics you cannot say this or that tyre is more puncture resistant that that tyre (thickness and damp being the same). Note that Kevlar and other fibre mats in the tyre do not prevent or even reduce punctures since matting is easily pierced. The only thing that can reduce punctures is thick, hard and therefore slow, vinyl.

I hope this helps to understand these mystical qualities people attribute to tyres based on meaningless anecdotal experience.

 

[Roadhump]

Schwalbe don't call them puncture proof so probably not.

I had a spate of punctures on my M+ so I've gone back to Durano. Once you don't believe M+ are bomb proof there's no point carrying all that weight.

Thanks for the reply, I accept they don't claim they are puncture proof, but they do say it is "Flat-less" the following is on their website:

THE NEW FLAT-LESS TIRE.
Schwalbe’s best selling model. The most puncture resistant pneumatic tire there is. In addition to the superior puncture protection it features many inner values:

Less than 500 miles, and only 6 weeks use, before "the most puncture resistant pneumatic tire there is" suffers a puncture is a bit of a let down. Perhaps I'm just a bit angry at the moment and should have chilled out a bit before going on here, but anyway, their website also says they stand by the quality of their products and if you think it is a warranty issue go back to your dealer. I'm not overly optimistic but I'm going to see what the LBS says - still got my receipt.

I'll probably get up tomorrow and think I was just unlucky, but if anyone in future starts singing the praises of the M+ as they have to me in the past, they are likely to be on the end of an unexpected tongue lashing.

 

[Citius]

Where in the post did you find the word "speed"? And which part of the post challenges Newton.

'Speed' was a word I used, as (presumably) one of your potential 'differences' - which you didn't actually specify. Perhaps you could clarify what 'differences you were referring to?

Care to explain why there is no difference in performance between entry level wheels and tyres and the more expensive ones. You can pick any number of variables such rolling resistance, weight, bearings, material etc

The onus is on you to clarify what differences exist. You are the one claiming there are differences, not me.

2) Most bikes are not sold with Mavic Aksiums or equivalent. Tell me otherwise.

Most bikes are not flourescent pink either - what's your point?

3) Where in the post says that TPI defines a tyre's weight?

Er, in your original post, see below:

For tyres, look for TPI of least 150. These are light, about 225grams

 

[Arrowfoot]

Discerning you say? I upgraded the stock wheels and tyres on my Sirrus.

Sadly I was not amongst them. Spent 2 years on the stock level set before I realised that I can get a better ride.