All these bad driver threads.

[HJ]

If you feel you make a difference even to the time you are riding then it is worth it.

Once I have been cycling into work for another few months my tune might change, after I have seen more near misses etc. at the moment I have not seen many.

This is the quite time of the year when many people are on holiday and there is less traffic on the roads, just wait until the holidays are over and the school run starts up again, then you'll see

 

[DavieB]

I'm sorry, what is that?
Cycling is a choice and driving isnt?

Had your reg put on youtube recently? Or was it a while back and you've only just found out?


No, I'm sorry, I'm sure you are a kind and safe driver, and always give everyone plenty of space. But your arguments are so full of holes it's painful to read.
Cycling for some of us is not a choice, I know it isn't a matter of choice for me. I either cycle, walk, take the bus, or occasionally take the train. Given the recent rise in fairs, I can't actually afford to take the bus or the train with any regularity, so that leaves a choice for me, of either cycling, or walking.

On top of that, I often travel further than is feasible to walk in a reasonable space of time. or maybe even not reasonable to walk in a day. So that leaves me with cycling...

I don't have a choice when it comes to cycling, either I cycle, or I don't get where I'm going.
I don't drive, I don't own a car, and have never lernt to drive.

Its a choice for me and its a choice for a lot of people. Im quite sure there are probably more people on here that drive and cycle than there are just cycle. No doubt someone will inform me Im wrong. A lot of jobs require you have a car or driving license a lot of people live where public transport is poor, they have the choice to drive to a park and ride if need be.

Its not an argument either its a discussion. Its what I believe.

 

[HJ]

Driving is a choice, a lot of people have the mistake perception that they have to drive because they have never stopped to think about alternatives, it is sad really...

 

[2Loose]

Driving is a choice, a lot of people have the mistake perception that they have to drive because they have never stopped to think about alternatives, it is sad really...

+1

 

[Amanda P]

Is that potholes on that road? That may be the worst road I have ever seen,

Fortunately not: it's cowshit. One of the joys of living in the sticks.

Its a choice for me and its a choice for a lot of people.

Hmmm. No-one is forced at gunpoint to drive. But we all have to get around somehow. You seem to be suggesting that choosing to drive is somehow more valid than choosing to use a bike. I don't think you'll get a lot of support for that point of view around here.

 

[dondare]

Thats my point.

I nwver stated anywhere I was against cameras, nor was it a rant against cameras.

Little effect is not the same as no effect.
More might be better. If so, then we have a duty to society to start recording.

 

[DavieB]

Fortunately not: it's cowshit. One of the joys of living in the sticks.



Hmmm. No-one is forced at gunpoint to drive. But we all have to get around somehow. You seem to be suggesting that choosing to drive is somehow more valid than choosing to use a bike. I don't think you'll get a lot of support for that point of view around here.

I dont think its more valid personally, but you ask 90 percent of drivers if they could possibly commute or get around any other way they would say no. They believe its the only way to get around. I would like to take my bike everywhere but its not practical.

 

[Andrew_P]

It is definitely the vulnerability on a bike, and its even more annoying when you can see them checking their mirror to see if you are still there. I have only just got back in to cycling and feeling vulnerable is and was the biggest hurdle.

That said, I have now settled and try to ignore them, and as long as I am well lit and stick out like a sore thumb what else can you do? I think getting in to arguements is at best bad for your blood pressure and at worst you might just come across someone who will take it a step further and may well be the person who has an uncontrolable red mist while in possession of a dangerous weapon, namely a ton of steel with and engine. For me its just not worth the risk.

Car vs Car is fair game Car vs Bike is just too risky.

I learnt the hard way by having someone get irritated with me and decide to suddenly block me between them and parked car while going down a hill.

 

[BentMikey]

Good thread, this one!

 

[Amanda P]

I dont think its more valid personally, but you ask 90 percent of drivers if they could possibly commute or get around any other way they would say no. They believe its the only way to get around. I would like to take my bike everywhere but its not practical.

We're drifting from your original point somewhat, but it's an interesting discussion.

It sounds as if you do feel that choosing to drive is more valid than choosing to cycle, because most of those who drive do so because they feel there's no realistic alternative.

And the logical connection to the rest of the argument is that because driving is so essential, drivers' mistakes or carelessness are excusable - an inevitable consequence of them driving. And therefore those with cameras should stop moaning.

I'm sure I'm misrepresenting you. So put me right and say clearly what your point is.

 

[dondare]

I've no doubt at all that some people have to drive. The point is that given that, they should drive safely and considerately. A motor-vehicle on the road is a highly dangerous piece of machinery being operated in a public place and is subject to many legal constraints which must be obeyed, and ultimately it is the responsibility of the driver that their vehicle does not endanger life, limb or property.
Those who fail to protect the public from thre dangers that they are subjecting them to should be brought to book and their vehicles removed from the road by whatever means is necessary.

 

[dondare]

Good thread, this one!

You picking up Lee's posts, or is he still on your ignore list?

 

[Moodyman]

DavieB has some valid points.

No driver is out to kill cyclists. Of course there will be judgement errors but that is to be expected with so many vehicles on the road.

But Cycle Chat has so many anti-driver rants that it sometimes feels anti-car.

If some cyclists feel so threatened by a minority of drivers, it might be worth them considering alternative (safer) methods of commuting.

It's easier to change yourself than it is to change the behaviour of thousands of motorists.

 

[DavieB]

We're drifting from your original point somewhat, but it's an interesting discussion.

It sounds as if you do feel that choosing to drive is more valid than choosing to cycle, because most of those who drive do so because they feel there's no realistic alternative.

And the logical connection to the rest of the argument is that because driving is so essential, drivers' mistakes or carelessness are excusable - an inevitable consequence of them driving. And therefore those with cameras should stop moaning.

I'm sure I'm misrepresenting you. So put me right and say clearly what your point is.

No I dont think it is more valid to choose than to cycle, but I do believe the people who think they have no choice but to drive think it is a more valid alternative. Im just trying to explain why they might be more susceptible to road rage and frustation. I am not for one moment saying they are entitled to road rage for this reason, just they are more likely to have it than I am on my bike as I choose to cycle and enjoy it.

Ever wish you hadnt clicked post.

 

[BentMikey]

You picking up Lee's posts, or is he still on your ignore list?

Only where he's quoted by others. I wasn't really referring to him though, more that it's good to see this debate have so many proponents that aren't remarkably different to my own point of view.