All these bad driver threads.

[martint235]

DavieB has some valid points.


But Cycle Chat has so many anti-driver rants that it sometimes feels anti-car.

If some cyclists feel so threatened by a minority of drivers, it might be worth them considering alternative (safer) methods of commuting.

I'm not anti-car in any way. In an ideal world all road users would obey the laws and would show a level of respect to each other that included an understanding of the associated issues with the relative mode of transport.

We should never get to the situation however where it is recommended that people should not use their chosen mode of transport because of people breaking the law (whatever mode of transport they use).

 

[Amanda P]

If some cyclists feel so threatened by a minority of drivers, it might be worth them considering alternative (safer) methods of commuting.

It's easier to change yourself than it is to change the behaviour of thousands of motorists.

But I'm sure you'd agree that no-one should have to change themselves because others are being careless.

In an ideal world... it's not an ideal world, but it won't get any closer to being one if no-one cares enough to try to change things.

I'm not concerned about anti-car threads. It's a cycling forum: what do you expect? And when a car - or rather its driver - has come close to killing you, "I conceive you may use any language you choose to indulge in without impropriety".

 

[Andrew_P]

I think Moodyman has put DaveB's point across for him

 

[Amanda P]

Ever wish you hadnt clicked post.

Hey, you're stimulating a debate. Think yourself lucky this thread hasn't descended to personal attacks and insults yet. When it does, I'll be gone.

 

[Midnight]

People driving badly can kill a whole family. But I have never felt the need to attach a camera to my car to get all these people into trouble

What! Are you saying those who drive so badly that they could potentially kill someone shouldn't 'get into trouble' ??????

It's easy to become blase about personal safety when you're surrounded by a metal cage/airbags/crumple zones, but as others have pointed out, on a cycle you're far more vulnerable, and it's not easy staying calm when an inconsiderate motorist causes you to fear for your life. What do you expect cyclists to do, blow 'em a kiss? I admit that in the past I have shouted aggressively at motorists when perhaps I shouldn't have, but I've now learned to be more philosophical and take a more zen-like approach like MacBludgeon and acknowledge good driving with a wave and a smile. After all, motorists are human too and do make genuine mistakes, but what about the ones who shout needlessly at cyclists, or idiots like James Martin who deliberately go out of their way to scare cyclists, or use their vehicles to bully cyclists out of the way (and this is not a myth, it does happen). I would never shout at someone for using a mobile, for instance, but having already been hospitalised with serious injuries by a careless driver (and there are plenty of others out there with similar experiences), I reserve the right to get annoyed when I come close to another serious incident!

I do agree that some of the headcam footage I've seen on here does seem to be about trivial incidents, but I still think helmet cams are a good idea, if for no other reason than if I were to have (another) serious accident then a camera could provide invaluable evidence of what caused an accident, rather than relying one persons word against anothers.

People drive for many reasons, some because their job demands mobility/need to commute great distances/have to travel when or where public transport is not adequate, and for many other reasons I can't think of right now, but if you're trying to suggest that all car journeys , or even a large majority, are essential travel then I think you're seriously mistaken (and I'm talking about domestic car ownership, not commercial traffic). Car ownership is often a lifestyle choice, and I don't have a problem with that, that's there choice. I choose not to drive, that's my choice,but I shouldn't have to risk life and limb every time I ride my bike - though I often do!

 

[DavieB]

What! Are you saying those who drive so badly that they could potentially kill someone shouldn't 'get into trouble' ??????

Im saying 99% of the time near misses go unpunished.

 

[Moodyman]

Uncle Phil & Martin,

You're right about your ideal world, but as you rightly state, we're not in one.

So we accept that there's a small percentage of motorists who drive badly, illegally, dangerously.

We ride our bikes knowing this and take steps to mitigate the risks - position, lights, hi viz and so forth.

On a wider scale, we have cycling bodies lobbying for better driver understanding.

But we'll never eradicate human behaviour and there remains potential for error.

Now, if some cyclists still feel vulnerable, then, I would say that they need to look at alternatives.

I personally hate fast roller coasters - they give me headaches. I have two choices 1) don't ride or 2) ask the theme park to slow it down for me.

Which option should I go for?

 

[Amanda P]

Im saying 99% of the time near misses go unpunished.

But your subsequent clause "But I have never felt the need to attach a camera to my car to get all these people into trouble" seems to me to imply that you feel that it's OK that they go unpunished.

I don't think it's OK that they go unpunished.

 

[2Loose]

Uncle Phil & Martin,

You're right about your ideal world, but as you rightly state, we're not in one.

So we accept that there's a small percentage of motorists who drive badly, illegally, dangerously.

We ride our bikes knowing this and take steps to mitigate the risks - position, lights, hi viz and so forth.

On a wider scale, we have cycling bodies lobbying for better driver understanding.

But we'll never eradicate human behaviour and there remains potential for error.

Now, if some cyclists still feel vulnerable, then, I would say that they need to look at alternatives.

I personally hate fast roller coasters - they give me headaches. I have two choices 1) don't ride or 2) ask the theme park to slow it down for me.

Which option should I go for?

Option 3 = MTFU

 

[Midnight]

Maybe I'm being thick, DaveB, but i'm not sure what you're trying to say here - 99% unreported - good thing or bad thing?

The original quote was 'People driving badly can kill a whole family. But I have never felt the need to ...get all these people into trouble'. Do you still think they should not get into trouble?

 

[DavieB]

But your subsequent clause "But I have never felt the need to attach a camera to my car to get all these people into trouble" seems to me to imply that you feel that it's OK that they go unpunished.

I don't think it's OK that they go unpunished.

Do you think that some of these people after they have pulled out in front of you and see they have gotten away with a near miss dont have there heart rate increase and get a fright, thinking I could have hurt that cyclist/pedestrian there. meaning from that moment on they will be more careful.

Admittedly some people constantly do it and dont care, go out at the next junction and do it again. They need punished.

Sometimes a near miss is enough to make people change there ways.

 

[Amanda P]

Uncle Phil & Martin,

You're right about your ideal world, but as you rightly state, we're not in one.

So we accept that there's a small percentage of motorists who drive badly, illegally, dangerously.

We ride our bikes knowing this and take steps to mitigate the risks - position, lights, hi viz and so forth.

On a wider scale, we have cycling bodies lobbying for better driver understanding.

But we'll never eradicate human behaviour and there remains potential for error.

Now, if some cyclists still feel vulnerable, then, I would say that they need to look at alternatives.

I personally hate fast roller coasters - they give me headaches. I have two choices 1) don't ride or 2) ask the theme park to slow it down for me.

Which option should I go for?

Moody, here's where your analogy breaks down: we don't have to ride rollercoasters to go about our everyday business. But most of us do have to use roads, which we share with others.

The rollercoaster analogy is quite thought-provoking though. Suppose we did get to work by rollercoaster? Would we make them run slower?

Perhaps we'd all get used to having the crap scared out of us on the way to work everyday, and become used to it. Perhaps after a while we might stop being so scared. We might stop noticing the danger, because we seemed to arrive at the end every day without coming to any harm... our risk-taking would go unpunished... is this starting to sound familiar?

 

[MacB]

I think it's easy to label people on here, and elsewhere, as anti-car when they're really anti the car culture. It's become a vicious circle that's very hard to break:-

Planning priority for roads and parking
increased distances between home and work
demise of local facilities in favour of big, out of town, business/retail/leisure parks
car ownership as a symbol of success and freedom - lack of a car as a symbol of failure
subsidised motoring costs
estrangement of communities - it's quite possible to live your life via house, car, work, supermarket and never really venture out
lack of awareness, or even consideration that alternatives exist
laziness
acceptance of a death toll that dwarfs others, including our recent 'mini wars'.

All this contributes to a situation that the majority dislike, they don't get the freedom and success that their expensive car promises. No matter what you spend you still suffer the same congestion issues as everyone else.

Every cyclist and campaigner can put a little dent in this culture but it'll take a heck of a lot of dents to make an impact. Camera useage has its place along with all the other stuff.

 

[jonny jeez]

Some of us don't just post videos of dangerous driving.

and some of us dont post any...

 

[Amanda P]

Do you think that some of these people after they have pulled out in front of you and see they have gotten away with a near miss dont have there heart rate increase and get a fright, thinking I could have hurt that cyclist/pedestrian there. meaning from that moment on they will be more careful.

Admittedly some people constantly do it and dont care, go out at the next junction and do it again. They need punished.

Sometimes a near miss is enough to make people change there ways.

You're absolutely right, and I'm one of the people who has learned from such an experience.

The problem is the people who do this sort of thing and have no idea they have done anything amiss. Or who feel that all's fair on the roads and taking risks with other's metalwork - or lives - is OK. For them, in the absence of any realistic possibility of being caught by the police, a camera may be helpful.