All these bad driver threads.

[martint235]

I personally hate fast roller coasters - they give me headaches. I have two choices 1) don't ride or 2) ask the theme park to slow it down for me.

Which option should I go for?

It's not really the same though is it? The rollercoaster isn't breaking the law neither is its operator.

There are old ladies who don't come out because they are afraid they'll be mugged by hoodies. Should we therefore recommend that they stay in or should we address the problem which is hoodies mugging people?

If we could convince road users to obey the laws (and that's what I'm talking about) then people could choose the way they travel without fear. I accept there are some people who are nervous around very large vehicles that are being driving considerately for example. These people fit in with your rollercoaster analogy and should, rather than not cycle, find a route that keeps them away from heavy traffic. I'm not phased by heavy traffic but I do object to people driving dangerously in my vicinity. Rather than me not cycle, I feel they should be discouraged from behaving in this manner.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

So we accept that there's a small percentage of motorists who drive badly, illegally, dangerously.
We ride our bikes knowing this and take steps to mitigate the risks - position, lights, hi viz and so forth.
...
But we'll never eradicate human behaviour and there remains potential for error.
Now, if some cyclists still feel vulnerable, then, I would say that they need to look at alternatives....

ISTR you have more chance of dying in a car (or, indeed, a pedestrian) than on a bike.
Your post sounds a bit like blaming the victim. If I am harassed on public transport, should I never venture onto it again?

 

[Amanda P]

I think it's easy to label people on here, and elsewhere, as anti-car when they're really anti the car culture. It's become a vicious circle that's very hard to break:-

Planning priority for roads and parking
increased distances between home and work
demise of local facilities in favour of big, out of town, business/retail/leisure parks
car ownership as a symbol of success and freedom - lack of a car as a symbol of failure
subsidised motoring costs
estrangement of communities - it's quite possible to live your life via house, car, work, supermarket and never really venture out
lack of awareness, or even consideration that alternatives exist
laziness
acceptance of a death toll that dwarfs others, including our recent 'mini wars'.

All this contributes to a situation that the majority dislike, they don't get the freedom and success that their expensive car promises. No matter what you spend you still suffer the same congestion issues as everyone else.

Every cyclist and campaigner can put a little dent in this culture but it'll take a heck of a lot of dents to make an impact. Camera useage has its place along with all the other stuff.

MacB he talk sense. What a neat potted summary of the problem.

 

[jonny jeez]

I have been reading this forum for a few weeks and I agree with a lot of the comments on it but some of the stuff against drivers is over the top.


I have drove every day for the last 13 years in those years I have had 2 accidents one was someone running into the back of me and the other was a motorbike undertaking at a junction(it was eventually put down as a 50-50)

In these years people have cut me up pulled out in front of me at junctions causing me to emergency stop, came at me on the wrong side of the road when overtaking other cars, drove right up my bumper, overtook too close almost hitting mirrors and yes at the time I have had a weeshout and moan perhaps a w*****r sign even window down and almost a square go (I even had some idiot try to drive into my car after that particular set to) The only tie I get really angry with this stuff is when my children are in the car. People driving badly can kill a whole family. But I have never felt the need to attach a camera to my car to get all these people into trouble I have never shouted through someones window to tell them to get off their phone, I dont try to cause myself bother.

On my bike generally people pass me with plenty space, even when people have passed in the zone that you would call too close in trucks or buses at 60mph I have not been caught in any draughts and have not felt the need to shout at anyone.

I think what has to be remembered is people generally drive because they need to not because they want to (like cyclists) due to this they are stuck in traffic jams they dont want to be in, the whole point of cars is a-b as fast as you can, and it is faster than public transport (in Glasgow) I dont see the point in antagonising them further if a driver passes to close and does not blow me about or skiff me then I wont bother or report them or put their reg no on you tube, I think you are inviting yourself into bother with this and the camera aint much good if it gets whipped off your head and smashed.


Hopefully a voice of reason and not just seen as a "driver"

All fair points, just remember all those 'orrible things that bad drivers do when you're in your car - if they did them to you when you were on your bike you would be at WAY more at risk of being seriously hurt or killed. Also, it's easier to verbally or physically retaliate when you haven't got a box surrounding you preventing you from doing so.

As with you, I find 99.9% of other drivers to be courteous and considerate when driving around me. It's just that 0.1% who decide to put my life in danger in an often incorrect attempt at marginally increasing their convenience that frustrate me. Combine this with widespread negative attitudes from the media and from vocal individuals towards cyclists and it makes many of us want to become more active about wanting change.

+1 to Jezston on his responce.

DavieB, I would add that they are "mostly" fair points (if penned in a slightly anti cycle/anti cam style) I agree with James May’s conclusion that to drive in a "Christian way” (hope that doesn't offend any Chriatians out there) provides a greater enjoyment of the journey (At the cost of only minutes in time) and besides, you arrive in much less of a state then if you spent the whole time cutting through the traffic.

I don’t agree with the direction you are going in "branding" all head cam wearers. In the sense that i do not “truly” believe that all BMW drivers are cocks, I am certain that not all Head cam wearers are cocks either...although there is an undeniable correlation in both instances, it is unfair to Brand them all the same.

 

[DavieB]

I really hope Im not branding helmet cam cyclists as cocks. Not seeing the point is far different form calling someone a cock. apologies if anyone thinks thats what I have done.

 

[benb]

ISTR you have more chance of dying in a car (or, indeed, a pedestrian) than on a bike.
Your post sounds a bit like blaming the victim. If I am harassed on public transport, should I never venture onto it again?

I haven't been in a pedestrian for ages. Not since I got arrested for public indecency!

 

[Moodyman]

If I am harassed on public transport, should I never venture onto it again?

I'm not phased by heavy traffic but I do object to people driving dangerously in my vicinity. Rather than me not cycle, I feel they should be discouraged from behaving in this manner.

With the exception of Bentmikey and Magnatom, I don't believe that drivers are out to hurt us deliberately.

They may make bad judgements or misunderstand how driving so close can sh1t scare a cyclist.

That's where driver awareness and understanding comes in. We have cycling bodies that campaign for us. Why don't we put out efforts into that rather than ranting on Cycle Chat.

Using videos as evidence to help change social attitudes and to drive government policy is great. But so often the comments & video links on here are personal attacks - 'look at this guy, he tried to kill me', 'yeah he did, report the fecker to the police'

No he didn't feckin try to kill you - he made an error in judgement. Nobody got hurt move on. Provide the video to cycling bodies as evidence and help drive public policy.

 

[BentMikey]

With the exception of Bentmikey and Magnatom, I don't believe that drivers are out to hurt us deliberately.

Could you explain this statement a little more? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

 

[Moodyman]

You got spat on and was seriously threatened with violence by that dude in trade van.

Maganatom regularly gets physical threats.

You're the only cyclists on here who drivers appear to want to to hurt.

 

[jonny jeez]

I really hope Im not branding helmet cam cyclists as cocks. Not seeing the point is far different form calling someone a cock. apologies if anyone thinks thats what I have done.

Sure, (and i didn’t think you were by the way) but you were branding them none the less and that can often lead in a direction that I didn’t agree with.

While I'm here I have to say also that, whilst I wholeheartedly agree with your comments on not "starting" trouble (calling out to drivers on phones, stopping vehicles over the slightest of errors) I have found that, every once in a while, it is really healthy to let rip and give it some beanz otherwise you risk becoming frustrated and critical of ALL drivers which can lead to you simply “putting up” with terrible behaviour (no matter how infrequent it is)



But I do agree with the general point you make and the position you’re taking on it.

 

[jonny jeez]

You're the only cyclists on here who drivers appear to want to to hurt.

LOL...

 

[BentMikey]

You got spat on and was seriously threatened with violence by that dude in trade van.

Maganatom regularly gets physical threats.

You're the only cyclists on here who drivers appear to want to to hurt.

So it's my fault? As said upthread, there's no need to victim blame.

Drivers tend to get angry and/or violent when a cyclist offers consequences for their bad driving. Then they're too chicken to do much about it on camera.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

I haven't been in a pedestrian for ages. Not since I got arrested for public indecency!

sorry, bad edit

 

[martint235]

Drivers tend to get angry and/or violent when a cyclist offers consequences for their bad driving. Then they're too chicken to do much about it on camera.

+1. I also find they are happy to dish out a bit of verbal abuse when they think they won't see you again. Catch them at the lights and all of a sudden it goes extremely quiet. IME anyway.

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

Hey, you're stimulating a debate. Think yourself lucky this thread hasn't descended to personal attacks and insults yet. When it does, I'll be gone.

Chicken!

Yellowbelly!

Long streak of.....