Amateur ignorant ride organiser needs advice about participants having punctures

[ebikeerwidnes]

Kinda put me off the idea of being a leader unless it is part of a bigger organisation

Sounds like loads of hassle and possible serious problems - I would want the support of a group that had experience in this sort of thing

 

[Profpointy]

'kinell, all this talk of next of kin and first aid; you'd think they were climbing the Matterhorn rather than a leisurely bike ride

 

[mjr]

'kinell, all this talk of next of kin and first aid; you'd think they were climbing the Matterhorn rather than a leisurely bike ride

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

 

[Profpointy]

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Well, OK up to a point, but we need a sense of proportion.

As it happens I have done various first aid training over the years, albeit certificates have lapsed, but I'm a bit sceptical about carrying first aid kits as anything minor can just be put up with, and if someone's broken their leg or whatever, you're hardly going to be carrying a leg splint. Maybe mountaineering you might want to bodge something up - in which case gaffer tape and something like a "sam splint" is probably more use than bandages and safety pins. Would you take a first aid kit if a group of you walk to the pub - maybe a riskier venture than a bike ride. Likewise would you get a next of kin list if a group of you went to the theatre and you didn't know everyone ? Someone might get a heart attack or be run over.

Maybe for an expedition across iceland, but c'mon; a leisurely afternoo ride. You're probably at just as much risk doing a bit of DIY at home on your own

 

[neil_merseyside]

'kinell, all this talk of next of kin and first aid; you'd think they were climbing the Matterhorn rather than a leisurely bike ride

No motorised morons on the Matterhorn, and even the pedestrians there only travel in fixed directions.

 

[Profpointy]

No motorised morons on the Matterhorn, and even the pedestrians there only travel in fixed directions.

So going for a bike ride is more dangerous than climbing the Matterhorn. Admittedly I'd not thought of that

That's not to say first aid preparation is "a bad thing" but I do think going for a bike ride is much the same as going about your daily life so doesn't merit more prep

 

[matticus]

That's not to say first aid preparation is "a bad thing" but I do think going for a bike ride is much the same as going about your daily life so doesn't merit more prep

Agreed. You might want to check conditions of any specific insurance you have. But there is no requirement for insurance to lead a bike ride in the UK.

I do think it's human nature to feel extra duty of care when leading any group in any activity, so it's not surprising that many folks go beyond the minimum.

 

[mjr]

Agreed. You might want to check conditions of any specific insurance you have.

Out of interest, because I have recently renewed it, I checked mine, which I've mentioned before in other threads is a very general personal liability insurance that I've held since I was a councillor, not a cycling-specific one. Almost the only conditions are the exclusion of the consequence of my "illegal acts" and "deliberate, wilful, malicious act".

Some obvious consequences of that for cycle rides are to make sure you actually know the laws about cycling (so know which red lights are compulsory, for example) and don't deliberately set out to put riders into difficulty. I assume that British Cycling ride leader insurance doesn't regard shoot like deliberately upping the speed to drop riders on no-drop rides as malicious but I suspect that many would.

 

[neil_merseyside]

I don't believe in the need for a 1st aid kit on the exact grounds of 'suck it up' or call an ambulance, but it is mandated by my club[1], and so must be carried on every club ride. I don't carry a 1st aid kit on a mates ride but I always carry a space blanket for the ambulance wait time [2]

[1] and a defib has been suggested more than once!
[2] never used by anyone I know but been donated to others in need twice.

 

[matticus]

Off the top-of-my-head, in the last 10 years regular group riding I've witnessed 3 nasty-ish incidents. All 3 ended up in an ambulance (although we could probably have got them home - painfully - if the ambulance service had been on strike that day. When I ended up in an ambulance on my commute, I could probably have struggled the last mile home too. But would have needed to get stitched-up at some point.)

It's possible that people have often had minor scrapes and I've just forgotten those incidents, so don't take this as a high-quality study!

 

[Big T]

My experiences as a ride leader.

I carry a couple of spare tubes, a basic toolkit and spare chain links to fit several speeds of chain. Most riders on my rides will be on 700c and i‘d happily lend them one of my tubes, but I would really expect them to carry their own. If someone snaps a chain, I’ll give them a spare link and with any mechanical breakdown or puncture, I’ll help them to fix the problem and get going again.

I am First Aid trained I don’t carry a First Aid kit, there’s only so much carrying capacity on a road bike and I don’t want to riding with a saddlebag/rack pack/panniers. We have had a few incidents over the years which required medical attention, but in all cases an ambulance was called. I think the idea of a space blanket is a good one. One if these incidents was in deep, mid-winter and it took the ambulance 40 minutes or so to arrive, so the injured rider was getting cold.

if your club/group is Cycling UK or British Cycling affiliated, then as a ride leader, you are covered by their insurance. However, in 40 years of doing club rides, I’ve never seen or been involved in any incidents which saw a claim being brought against the ride leader.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

No motorised morons on the Matterhorn, and even the pedestrians there only travel in fixed directions.

Kicking the loose rocks on your head as they go and trying to overtake at bottlenecks. Plus those coming the opposite way use the same lane. Avalanches, rockfall. It has one of the highest fatality rates in the alps.

 

[neil_merseyside]

Kicking the loose rocks on your head as they go and trying to overtake at bottlenecks. Plus those coming the opposite way use the same lane. Avalanches, rockfall. It has one of the highest fatality rates in the alps.

London = Matterhorn
So for risks well above the average then the analogy still works?

 

[Profpointy]

Kicking the loose rocks on your head as they go and trying to overtake at bottlenecks. Plus those coming the opposite way use the same lane. Avalanches, rockfall. It has one of the highest fatality rates in the alps.

On the first ascent a century or more ago I think the two rival teams were deliberately chucking rocks at each other

 

[Ming the Merciless]

London = Matterhorn
So for risks well above the average then the analogy still works?

Nope as the risks are nowhere near comparable