An open letter to all condescending male chauvinist cyclists

[Tin Pot]

Having grown up sitting on the laps of those running feminist meetings I have struggled to come to terms with masculine influence on society, but what I've learned is that this and all similar issues are only resolved if people just stop doing it.

Bickering with women about it doesn't solve it.

Not doing it does.

If your not doing it, then that's positive action enough and get on with your life as an example to others. Just check your prejudices once in a while, as we all have them.

 

[Inertia]

It is not dismissed as hysteria, there are issues, there are problems, and no-one denies it.

However if that is to be dealt with it needs to be discussed and the outright dismissal of any male contribution is unhelpful and divisive. People may find that annoying and wish to challenge the insinuations and allegations

Pure stereotyping and name calling helps neither side in this debate

I think the dismissal here seems to be by people who think its not more of a problem for women. They arent dismissing the problem per se but they dismiss it as something woman suffer from more or that males seem to do it more.

If I were to cut it to the bones the dismissal goes someting like this. "women seem to think they are being excessivly targetted by this, while I think it happens to everyone equally"

 

[Markymark]

I think the dismissal here seems to be by people who think its not more of a problem for women. They arent dismissing the problem per se but they dismiss it as someting woman suffer from more or that males seem to do it more.

If I were to cut it to the bones the dismissal goes someting like this. "women seem to think they are being excessivly targetted by this, while I think it happens to everyone equally"

Quite. And on top of that, some women suggesting to men to stop it is as bad as women being wholesale patronised and held back in so many aspects in life.

 

[growingvegetables]

... the outright dismissal of any male contribution is unhelpful and divisive. People may find that annoying and wish to challenge the insinuations and allegations

Pure stereotyping and name calling helps neither side in this debate

[facepalm][/facepalm]

 

[Pat "5mph"]

They arent dismissing the problem per se but they dismiss it as something woman suffer from more or that males seem to do it more.

Well said @Inertia.
I just wrote an long post because I remembered more stuff that makes me want to throw my pump, but it has been deleted in the spirit of the Easter dove, bringer of peace
Wishing you all a peaceful time over the Easter weekend

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

I'm afraid that post rather proves exactly TMN's point.
Why, when some women express outrage/anger at everyday sexism, do some men continue to dismiss this as some kind of hysteria?

My theory is that they/we don't do it ourselves (or aren't conscious of doing it ourselves) and because we don't see it so much, on that "evidence" it's not a big issue. (It is)

I don't see the EXACT behaviour discussed by the OP, but working somewhere that deals with caravan and trailer parts and spares, as well as bikes, I see it in a different form. Such as the bloke who asked me about caravan waste connector sizes, I explained my areas were bikes and IT, and didn't know anything about the subject, guided him to the (female) assistant manager who was perfectly able to furnish him with the correct hose and connectors - but that didn't stop him following me outside where I was unloading a van, to ask if he's been given the right parts - and when I repeated that I would trust her judgement over mine, he then went to ask the bloke delivering cycle parts. Because possession of a penis was more important than actually knowing the products, apparently. This sort of thing happens a lot at my work where there are a higher proportion of female staff and (this should not need saying!) each one of them perfectly able to answer questions and select the right parts.

 

[Tin Pot]

Well said @Inertia.
I just wrote an long post because I remembered more stuff that makes me want to throw my pump, but it has been deleted in the spirit of the Easter dove, bringer of peace
Wishing you all a peaceful time over the Easter weekend

View attachment 347481

Blessed are the peacemakers

 

[Justinslow]

Errrr, thought this thread was locked?
Storm in a D cup.........

 

[growingvegetables]

I don't see the EXACT behaviour discussed by the OP, but working somewhere that deals with caravan and trailer parts and spares, as well as bikes, I see it in a different form. ... Because possession of a penis was more important than actually knowing the products, apparently.

Spot on.

My daughter worked off-and-on in the local Halfords, mostly the bike section, for a good while. She and her male mates had a few "routines" for confuddling such male customers. Honed to perfectly timed comedy value.

A case of frequent, oh-so-frequent, practise making perfect.

 

[ufkacbln]

Spot on.

My daughter worked off-and-on in the local Halfords, mostly the bike section, for a good while. She and her male mates had a few "routines" for confuddling such male customers. Honed to perfectly timed comedy value.

A case of frequent, oh-so-frequent, practise making perfect.

We were looking for a car, as we needed something big enough for the hoist

At one garage, we were immediately set upon by a salesman..... who would not go away, apparently you cannot look at a car without a salesman to talk you through

Even when told we were just looking, he would descend every time we looked interested in a vehicle.

So I started looking at a rather swish BMW 4x4, he assumed I was the buyer, ignored my wife and across he came - we spent 15 minutes discussing it, until eventually he asked about our budget.

Took great delight informing. him that I didn't have one, it was my wife buying the car, and all I had been doing was keeping him busy whilst my wife looked in peace

 

[Wobblers]

I think the relative difference between male/female in propensity to comment here if it's happened to you is due to various social pressures, plus the rather one-sided thread title.

Selection bias, eh? Except there's probably as many men replying on this thread as women, so that's dubious. @Pat "5mph" asked a direct question as to whether men faced the same sort of patronising behaviour that she had. The few answers she had were in the negative. You're also ignoring the fact that women have to put up with this behaviour at (most) other times. It's typical behviour, in other words. You have to explain why cycling should be the exception - except of course the anecdotal evidence on this thread says it isn't...

 

[Wobblers]

Sigh....

 

[velovoice]

[QUOTE 4762767, member: 43827"]Just read Pat's op again. Nothing too extreme in what she says. Some men can be patronising a-holes, especially to women. It's happened since time immemorial and will probably always happen in some fields which some men think are their area of expertise. In itself it's worth a moan on a cycling forum but is not the biggest problem in the world, and can be reduced by the victims of such behaviour giving an appropriate response to the perpetrator, as I am sure Pat is able to.

It can also happen in reverse though. I have done my own ironing since I was a kid, my parents felt we should take part in the household duties, and I have always repaired my clothes either by hand or machine sewing. This does not stop my wife and occasional female visitors to our house commenting "helpfully" on the way I carry out such tasks. I just laugh it off and carry on doing it my way quite efficiently.[/QUOTE]

Sigh....

[QUOTE 4762851, member: 43827"]



Care to explain without the condescending sigh?[/QUOTE]
HTH.

 

[flake99please]

A question for 'some' of the male members...

If your wife/sister/mother/daughter were a competent & confident cyclist, would you assume that a comment to use a lower/higher gear, wear a helmet and/or hi-viz clothing was 'being helpful', or would you rather they just mind their own business?

 

[velovoice]

[QUOTE 4763004, member: 43827"]Read the theme of the post without concentrating on one, probably clumsily worded, element.

I agreed that it is a problem caused by male a-holes, but are you seriously telling me it is it the biggest problem that women face? Informing such men of their behaviour at the time of the incident will help reduce it by embarrassing them.

There have been threads on violence to women, FGM, female slavery, exploitation in the sex trade. There is undoubted sexism in career opportunities, working conditions etc. Apologies for any I have missed out. All of these are, in my opinion, much more damaging to women, and much bigger problems, but if you, as a woman, tell me they are not and that all acts of male sexism are equally bad, then I will apologise unreservedly to you and all the women on this forum for the highlighted section of my post and accept that I have a lot to learn on the effects of male chauvinism.[/QUOTE]
You said it, i didn't.