Are birds dinosaurs? Discuss

[jefmcg]

Apparently there is a deep hunger to discuss this.... So, go for it in it's own thread..

Point of pedantry: dinisaurs do fly about the earth, and walk on occasion

Point of pedantry: over the last several million years, evolution has meant that the species we have are no longer dinosaurs.

birds are dinosaurs I'm given to understand

Do either of you seriously think that the question of whether birds are or are not dinosaurs is anything other than a completely arbitrary definition?

Not entirely arbitrary, like all speciation questions - I think you will struggle to find a coherent argument that Homo sapiens is a bird, for instance - but at the margins pretty arbitrary.

We find it convenient to use the term "dinosaurs" for a group of species that, as far as we know, dominated the planet's ecosystems millions of years ago. (It is also a useful metaphor for a bundle of social attitudes that are still, inexplicably, held by otherwise intelligent people.) But to claim that a group of species which we believe evolved from dinosaurs and which share some characteristics, as far as we know, with dinosaurs, therefore are dinosaurs feels like something of a stretch.

Well OT now; my fault, but i'm happy tol accept the modern scientific view that birds are dinosaurs, just like apes are mammals, and that it really isn't a "when does a pile become a heap" argument. It is usual to talk of "non-avian dinosaurs" if you want to exclude birds for any reason, but even then you've got the problem of how bird like a dinosaur has to be to not be a dinosaur. Modern crocodiles are descended from somewhat different prehistoric ones after all. Reptiles on the other hand is a much more confused and questionable categorisation.

adding that - no they are not. Dinosaurs were exothermic reptiles of the class dinosauria, while birds are endothermic creatures of the class Aves. Yes, there would have been creatures who would not fit into either class, but they are long extinct.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Apparently there is a deep hunger to discuss this.... So, go for it in it's own thread.....

adding that - no they are not. Dinosaurs were exothermic reptiles of the class dinosauria, while birds are endothermic creatures of the class Aves. Yes, there would have been creatures who would not fit into either class, but they are long extinct.

Spoilsport....

 

[Archie_tect]

Bids evolved from some earlier grouping, so why not raptors...

 

[Fab Foodie]

Bids evolved from some earlier grouping, so why not raptors...

I think ‘evolved’ is a key word here.....

 

[Archie_tect]

As opposed to dropped in by spacemen...

 

[vickster]

Bids evolved from some earlier grouping, so why not raptors...

I think old bids evolve from younger birds

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

Apparently there is a deep hunger to discuss this.... So, go for it in it's own thread..


adding that - no they are not. Dinosaurs were exothermic reptiles of the class dinosauria, while birds are endothermic creatures of the class Aves. Yes, there would have been creatures who would not fit into either class, but they are long extinct.

Well that was a short thread.

 

[Fnaar]

Have a look at the skin on a roast chicken drumstick. Dinosaur

 

[classic33]

If a creature was on the earth at the same time as dinosaurs, why are they not dinosaurs?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19849-living-dinosaurs-are-we-sure-birds-are-dinos/

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

So are we now going to a notion of all dinosaurs as being lots of pretty colours and having feathers (which will really screw up the menace of the Jurassic Park franchise - "Oh mummy" .. sorry, "Oh genderless parent figure, why are the pretty dinosaurs being made to look nasty?") to bring credence to the bird theory - or are a lot of fossil finds being re-examined and found to look a titchy bit avian?
Got to say my paleontology is a little out of date, I'm not up on recent finds.

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

If a creature was on the earth at the same time as dinosaurs, why are they not dinosaurs?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19849-living-dinosaurs-are-we-sure-birds-are-dinos/

The ceolacanth (which I can't spell) is a good example of that. It's been called a living fossil.

 

[Archie_tect]

Have you ever seen a dinosaur fly.... no, but I've seen an elephant fly.
1000 × 562 - yourshot.nationalgeographic.com

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

Not all fossils are dinosaurs...

Good point. Although they were around at the same time. Although one thing I've just read says they were about before the dinosaurs.
Oh well that's stuffed the coelacanth argument then. And the spell checker still doesn't like it either.

 

[the stupid one]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/lost-worlds/2012/sep/06/dinosaurs-garden-birds

Birds are dinosaurs (though I accept that there are many people who have been tricked into having no faith in experts!).

Since reading that article in 2012, and as a former dino-loving kid in the mid-70s, the sight of a bird whenever I've been feeling down in the dumps - or knackered riding my bike - has always lifted my spirits as soon as I remember I'm in the presence of a dinosaur.

 

[jefmcg]

Dammit, I broke my own thread. I thought I should express an opinion, otherwise it just looked like me thinking I was in charge. I am not used to having the last word on here.
----
I grew up obsessed with dinosaurs (because I was a human child), well before they were recognised as the ancestors of birds. But now I know it, it's so bleeding obvious.