Are we being forced to go electric?

[Jameshow]

I think there is a perception in some folk, including me, on how inconvenient it would be. However, for many people doing less than 10,000 miles a year, a once a week charge could be enough with a 200 mile range. It all depends on location and circumstances. I don’t disagree that infrastructure needs to be really improved to keep up with demand and I am concerned about inequalities.

He sold his fiesta for a second hand Zoe, partly as he works in renewables and it seemed the right thing to do, especially when arriving at clients.

Does he get subsidised electricity? Is so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

[All uphill]

Agree on cost, they're more pricey.

Weight, fact they weigh more, but actually don't feel it due to very low COG.

Agree cars are necessary evil for many including our family.

Yes agree those trying to bring true city EVs to the market. Convincing folk might be an issue compared to owning an ICE vehicle

Thanks for your balanced reply.

I see city EVs as the next step along the continuum:

Pushbike- ebike- ecargobike-townEV- EV

 

[geocycle]

Does he get subsidised electricity? Is so it's not really a fair comparison.

No, but he is a well informed 20 something. I only offered it as a counter to the assumption that someone without access to personal charging couldn’t make it work.

For many I agree it will be presently very difficult but with some change in behaviour it can work and be a positive. There are many individual scenarios to consider, that include going carless, but the pool of people who can go EV with the benefits that brings is growing.

 

[lazybloke]

Let me know what you think are downsides in your opinion and I will let you know what I think 😉

Circa 430 pages of downsides right above, but as I said, some people are strangely unwilling to acknowledge any of them. QED.


Not sure why you're asking me specifically, as I've already said I'd be happy to go electric; but I would prefer an EV that repesents better value for money calculated as total cost of ownership over say, 5 years, with much improved quality & reliability (as assessed by JD Power), better practicality (body shape), a better ratio of range to weight (efficiency), friendlier battery chemistry (ie less environmental impact) and software that doesn't need so many OTA updates. Oh, and definitely to have more cohesive and undestated styling.

Consigning ICEs to history is a win, but paying a premium to do it whilst losing out on all of the above ... many would consider that a very significant downside.

Very few products can't be improved. EVs certainly can.
Why would you quibble otherwise? Surely you aren't happy for Tesla to be 28th in reliability against 31 other manufacturers? (JD Power).

You criticise Toyota so much, yet their Lexus spin off could teach Tesla some fantastic lessons about interior quality, exterior paint and panel gaps, overall quality & reliability, and (with a few notable exceptions) styling.

 

[CXRAndy]

Why would you quibble otherwise? Surely you aren't happy for Tesla to be 28th in reliability against 31 other manufacturers? (JD Power

Not bothered where my car ranks on JD power. Ive found them to be very good technology, extremely reliable, cheap to run.

My least reliable EV is the Leaf, with a minor, but seemingly unfixable intermittent knock on acceleration and decelerate. Apart from this noise it's a reliable workhorse, doing 750 miles a week.

 

[Andy in Germany]

I think there is a perception in some folk, including me, on how inconvenient it would be. However, for many people doing less than 10,000 miles a year, a once a week charge could be enough with a 200 mile range.

That's easily my annual mileage without a car. I use trains, trams, and of course bicycles.

Yes I know that's not possible for everyone because rural areas and lack of infrastructure et c, et c. I know this because that's what people tell me all the time.

So, if, instead of subsidising these expensive EV projects, governments invested in 'technology' in the form of better public transport like trains, trains, trolley buses, et c and of course cycle lanes, then other people could travel and live well without spending a lot of money on an EV.

We could do this immediately and create all kinds of jobs, not just centreed around one factory

Even better this system works now, not in some hypothetical future date, and people wouldn't need to live next to highways or sit in traffic jams, so it increases quality of life and saves money.

We can call it the "HyperX Connected Edison Megapower Pod System" if it makes people feel happier...

 

[CXRAndy]

criticise Toyota so much

For their lack of getting onboard with EV. They've really misread the EV revolution, gambling on hybrid ( maintain ICE) and hydrogen.

They're so far behind now, it seems however unlikely they can grab a significant market share.

I believe some very large legacy brands will go to the wall

 

[DRM]

I believe some very large legacy brands will go to the wall

I actually think they will sign deals to make a common platform vehicle,(s) as they do now, so that basically several cars will be the same under the skin, with the associated cost savings, could actually harm sales of Tesla's highly priced cars

 

[cougie uk]

I actually think they will sign deals to make a common platform vehicle,(s) as they do now, so that basically several cars will be the same under the skin, with the associated cost savings, could actually harm sales of Tesla's highly priced cars

Do we need so many car companies though? The amount of models are ridiculous. Tesla seem to be managing well with what their few variants.

 

[DRM]

Do we need so many car companies though? The amount of models are ridiculous. Tesla seem to be managing well with what their few variants.

Whether we need all these companies or not, they will not just roll over & go bust, they have in some cases been around over a hundred years, they have lots of experience, I genuinely think Tesla could be at risk once the big boys set their stall out to finish them

 

[CXRAndy]

I actually think they will sign deals to make a common platform vehicle,(s) as they do now, so that basically several cars will be the same under the skin, with the associated cost savings, could actually harm sales of Tesla's highly priced cars

You may think they're overpriced, but when you compare them other brands they're more than competitive.

The biggest difference is Tesla actually makes profit per vehicle they sell.

Tesla will release a smaller car in the near future, which will fall right into small commute vehicle.

 

[CXRAndy]

Whether we need all these companies or not, they will not just roll over & go bust, they have in some cases been around over a hundred years, they have lots of experience, I genuinely think Tesla could be at risk once the big boys set their stall out to finish them

If you look at the market, the huge debts they're are carrying currently. The huge investment in ICE tooling for production. Then they are struggling to sell their EVs in significant numbers. When they do sell they're selling at a loss per car.

The Chinese makers will be seeking new markets as their domestic market has become extremely cutthroat. If BYD get a foothold in Europe or USA their pricing will crush the legacy makers

 

[DRM]

If you look at the market, the huge debts they're are carrying currently. The huge investment in ICE tooling for production. Then they are struggling to sell their EVs in significant numbers. When they do sell they're selling at a loss per car.

The Chinese makers will be seeking new markets as their domestic market has become extremely cutthroat. If BYD get a foothold in Europe or USA their pricing will crush the legacy makers

How do you know if losses are due to future EV development? as I say once they get together they will not go without a fight, and Tesla could likely get priced out of the market, the big makers are going nowhere

 

[classic33]

Whether we need all these companies or not, they will not just roll over & go bust, they have in some cases been around over a hundred years, they have lots of experience, I genuinely think Tesla could be at risk once the big boys set their stall out to finish them

Would you want to buy anything from a company who may yet loose their charging system(including what is built into their vehicles) and their motive power units?
All currently in the court system for patent infringement. And a further case of breach of contract if they do lose their charging network.

 

[Chislenko]

This seems a strange move to me if governments are sticking to their EV deadlines.

https://www.energylivenews.com/2023...Renault and,petrol, diesel and hybrid engines.