Are we being forced to go electric?

[Deleted member 26715]

On the contrary, you've made your mind up, despite, by your own account, not knowing any of the facts

That's because they (the facts) aren't out there yet, even the article admits that, EV in it's current form is not the answer for the masses,

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Can any of them be plugged into a charging point and be driven (used) whilst charging?

I'm pretty sure they'll be a youtube video somewhere of somebody doing it

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Deckchair arrangers would be the end of the line as the ship sunk but hoefully EV's are a staging post to where ever we end up next. We dont know what may come next but Ev's have merit as they are a step forward. The regular car of today is going backward as they get bigger and heavier. The mpg figures and no longer improving, if anything the faux SUV fad is making matters worse.

Stop talking sense, you have no right to do that in the thread!

 

[figbat]

Which is a converts way of saying over 50% isn't

100% of ICE cars are fossil-fueled.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

100% of ICE cars are fossil-fueled.

And even if leccy is fossil fuel generated, EVs use much less because they're so much more efficient.

 

[cougie uk]

Well, that’s lovely for you to:
1. Have the money for an 80kW array
2. To have the SPACE for an 80kW array
3. To have the money/employment/whatever to allow you to have a posh EV

There are many out there, including in this discussion, who, I suspect, are not as fortunate.

There is still also the fact that, if I spend a good chunk of my retirement fund on an EV that meets my needs, the powerful diesel, which I would trade in, will still be out there using fossil fuels and generating emissions and taking up road space. Not really a benefit to the environment then. Perhaps I’ll keep it.

Seems to me that there are some fortunate or wealthy evangelists on this thread who have little empathy with other motorists of more modest means

Having and running any car isn't cheap these days. But I did the sums and calculated that it was cheaper to buy and run an EV than a petrol car. And I hadn't even allowed for the huge increase in petrol price.

 

[icowden]

Particulate for one. They also contribute to an increase in ground level ozone, due to the reduction on other gasses that normally react to reduce it. Both are more harmful than the emissions they replace.

Well lets get the ozone issue out of the way. EVs don't emit it. The ozone contribution is about the methods of creating the electricity that charge the car. Switch to greener electricity generation - less ozone. The secondary aspect is that nitrous oxides which are emitted from ICE cars have a suppressant effect on ground level ozone. By eliminating one greenhouse gas, it allows another greenhouse gas to be more prevalent. That isn't the fault of the cars.

Non exhaust particulate emissions are worse in EVs that's true but all cars produce them as all cars have tyres and brakes. Yes, EVs are heavier than ICE cars, but much of the research into this area is somewhat statistically driven and often overlooks that EVs use their brakes less.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www...particulate-pollution-myths-busted-rac-report

So in summary, EVs are much less polluting than ICE cars. The amount that they are better in terms of fuel is driven by your country's energy production system. They are also better than ICE cars when it comes to non-emission pollution such as particulates.

 

[icowden]

There is still also the fact that, if I spend a good chunk of my retirement fund on an EV that meets my needs, the powerful diesel, which I would trade in, will still be out there using fossil fuels and generating emissions and taking up road space. Not really a benefit to the environment then. Perhaps I’ll keep it.

True, but not for very long as Diesel will rapidly become unaffordable. It's getting close now.

 

[Chislenko]

My electric toothbrush is more polluting than my manual one which uses no energy 🙂

 

[CXRAndy]

Having and running any car isn't cheap these days. But I did the sums and calculated that it was cheaper to buy and run an EV than a petrol car. And I hadn't even allowed for the huge increase in petrol price.

That was the surprising part, how much you could save in money using an EV. Then there is the fantastic part of zero tailpipe emissions, finally super smooth cars to drive.

I probably wouldn't have gone for solar in our previous home, but since we moved to a farm and are wanting to do lots of nature re-establishment to increase bees, insects, wildlife, flower diversity, bird conservation. We wanted to cut down on grid usage (given huge jump in energy costs) We put our life savings into it, to give something back for our children and hopefully grandchildren, so they can have an environment which is sustainable, with clean air and thriving nature .

 

[tyred]

My electric toothbrush is more polluting than my manual one which uses no energy 🙂

I'm thinking of converting my toothbrush to run one of those tiny two stroke engines🤔

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Well lets get the ozone issue out of the way. EVs don't emit it. The ozone contribution is about the methods of creating the electricity that charge the car. Switch to greener electricity generation - less ozone. The secondary aspect is that nitrous oxides which are emitted from ICE cars have a suppressant effect on ground level ozone. By eliminating one greenhouse gas, it allows another greenhouse gas to be more prevalent. That isn't the fault of the cars.

Non exhaust particulate emissions are worse in EVs that's true but all cars produce them as all cars have tyres and brakes. Yes, EVs are heavier than ICE cars, but much of the research into this area is somewhat statistically driven and often overlooks that EVs use their brakes less.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/sustainability/357592/electric-car-particulate-pollution-myths-busted-rac-report

So in summary, EVs are much less polluting than ICE cars. The amount that they are better in terms of fuel is driven by your country's energy production system. They are also better than ICE cars when it comes to non-emission pollution such as particulates.

You're still wrong about the issue with ozone, and the rest of your post misses quite a bit, which means your summary doesn't altogether hold up either, especially with the reduction in emission reduction research due to the pending ban on production and sale.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

That was the surprising part, how much you could save in money using an EV.

How much did you spend on your EV to get you into this position?

 

[ClichéGuevara]

100% of ICE cars are fossil-fueled.

Fossil fuels have saved many millions of lives, and improved the lives of many millions more, as well as preventing the extinction of several species, and reducing the impact of extreme weather events.

Gathering the components for wind, solar and EV's is causing environmental damage and impacting heavily on communities in poorer areas of the world.

I actually support protecting the environment, but some of the arguments and 'solutions' proposed are grossly oversimplified, and risk simply changing one problem for another, while people feel good about doing it.

Few of those people feeling good have addressed the very real issue that the wealthy will save money by going along with it, at the expense of the poorer sections of society and the world at large.

 

[Time Waster]

And even if leccy is fossil fuel generated, EVs use much less because they're so much more efficient.

Something about that sounds wrong. The EV isn't efficient but the PS supplying energy through the electricity supply through burning fossil fuels is more efficient than ICE supplying the energy from fossil fuels directly. Significantly more efficient which counteracts losses in distribution and other losses. I'm not sure you can say EVs in themselves are more efficient just the energy supply is probably more efficient.

I stand to be corrected, but I doubt very much the EVs are significantly more efficient in and of themselves.

I don't think anyone serious thinks EV s are the solution just like hybrids weren't. They're perhaps less obviously a stage on the journey to some than hybrids but they're just as much a step in the journey to something better that truly works for society and the environment.

My view is how long before the next step in that journey comes? I think it might be possible to skip EVs as they are now and get the next tech along if it comes in early enough.