BBC helmet cam film to explore cyclist-motorist conflict

[BentMikey]

The only fact is BM, primary is the default position for you.

Is there any need to make it personal? I'm referring specifically to Cyclecraft here, OK?

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

As I said, read the book so that you understand the concept of vehicular cycling and Franklin's definition of 'primary' and 'secondary' - I'm certainly not going to precis the whole book for you.

It'll probably be the best £15.99 you've spent...

I generally do understand the concept. I'm just highly curious as to why you edited a sentence, to say what you wanted it to,when it clearly stated something entirely different.

 

[BentMikey]

My recollection is that User did put across the intended and actual meaning in the book.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

My recollection is that User did put across the intended and actual meaning in the book.

This is the quote

“The primary riding position should be your normal riding position when you can keep up with traffic, when you need to emphasize your presence to traffic ahead, or when you need to prevent following drivers from passing you unsafely.”

This is the quote broken down

“The primary riding position should be your normal riding position,

1. when you can keep up with traffic,
2. when you need to emphasize your presence to traffic ahead,
3. or when you need to prevent following drivers from passing you unsafely.”

See the difference?

 

[BentMikey]

I generally do understand the concept. I'm just highly curious as to why you edited a sentence, to say what you wanted it to,when it clearly stated something entirely different.

I think User put across the meaning correctly. I've just gone and looked in the book. His choice of bolding is not something you need to pick on here.

Just go and read the book before you choose to argue the point further, please?

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

I think User put across the meaning correctly. I've just gone and looked in the book. His choice of bolding is not something you need to pick on here.

Just go and read the book before you choose to argue the point further, please?

He simply did not.

I can freely comment on this thread Mikey and I will do so, without reading books if I so desire.


What do you suggest should be done when you can't keep up with traffic? Don't need to emphasize your position or have no need to prevent drivers passing?

What do you suggest people who can't keep up with traffic do? If we go by cyclecraft then their standard road position changes, does it not?

 

[BentMikey]

You can have your opinion, but so can I. I'm telling you that your criticism of User's post is simply wrong. His post efficiently got across the meaning that is easily apparent when you read that section of the book.

You've admitted you haven't read it, and quite a few of the rest of us have. My recollection matches Users, and yet I still gave you the respect to take 5 minutes and go and check the actual book to confirm. That is why I feel qualified to tell you you're on a hiding to nothing, just as User already did.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

You've read a book which makes you a qualified expert. I get that entirely

Would you like to attempt to answer the questions?

Is Gaz wrong?

You aren't meant to ride in primary all of the time. It's a position you take when people shouldn't be overtaking you or if you want to make your self more visible.

Most riding is done in a position labeled as Secondary. Which is nearer to the side of the road.

 

[400bhp]

:SHOCK:

Cyclechatters arguing about what a book says.

Whatever next...

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I read the sentence as ''normal'' when, when or when, i.e. normal for these conditions, much as T.M.H.N.E.T. does. It's normal that people flap their arms in the air when they fall off the top of skyscrapers.

Which puts me in the awkward position of agreeing with User on his general representation of riding à la Cyclecraft but completely disagreeing with his reading of the sentence in the example that was meant to be proof.

Personally, I find it's completely ''normal'' to be regularly changing position as conditions change, so perhaps I have a problem with the normative power of normal.

 

[BentMikey]

You've read a book which makes you a qualified expert. I get that entirely

Would you like to attempt to answer the questions?

Is Gaz wrong?

Your whole post above would seem like your capitulation on the point that you were wrong to criticise User's post about what is written in Cyclecraft. That is the only thing I'm debating on with you. I'm glad you accept you were mistaken.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Your whole post above would seem like your capitulation on the point that you were wrong to criticise User's post about what is written in Cyclecraft. That is the only thing I'm debating on with you. I'm glad you accept you were mistaken.

Eh no.

 

[BentMikey]

I read the sentence as ''normal'' when, when or when, i.e. normal for these conditions, much as T.M.H.N.E.T. does. It's normal that people flap their arms in the air when they fall off the top of skyscrapers.

Which puts me in the awkward position of agreeing with User on his general representation of riding à la Cyclecraft but completely disagreeing with his reading of the sentence in the example that was meant to be proof.

Personally, I find it's completely ''normal'' to be regularly changing position as conditions change, so perhaps I have a problem with the normative power of normal.

Well, both Gaz and User are right in that the default riding position is primary, but also that life on UK roads results in us spending most of our riding time in secondary. Secondary isn't the default, it's the position we'll use to be nice to other road users, when we're happy to make a compromise towards others' convenience. Franklin isn't saying anything different to your final sentence.

User's other post is appropriate here:
1 My safety
2 Your safety
3 My convenience
4 Your convenience

(it's an Andy Gates quote IIRC).

For example:
On a wider road, when my safety isn't a particular issue, I'll ride secondary as your convenience has the most importance.
Passing parked cars or going through a junction, and my safety takes priority, so I take primary there.
Narrow country lane, single lane traffic, and I'll take the lane the whole way along. If a car turns up behind, I'll most likely pull over at a passing place to let them past.

 

[BentMikey]

Eh no.

So let me get this straight:

You're arguing with User, and accusing him of a dishonest quote from Cyclecraft, when you haven't even read the relevant section or the book?

I have, and both of us are telling you that User's post is an efficient and accurate synopsis of the advice in that part of the book. Your position is unsupportable.

 

[BentMikey]

[QUOTE 2224897, member: 45"]There isn't a default riding position.[/quote]

Sure, I can accept that's your opinion. I'm not discussing your opinion in my posts above, mind.