BBC helmet cam film to explore cyclist-motorist conflict

[SomethingLikeThat]

Even the no undertake rule on the motorway doesn't really work when you have idiots sitting in the middle lane. Unless you want to move across two lanes (undesirable if the inside lane is busy) you have no choice but to undertake if you want to go faster.

 

[summerdays]

Even the no undertake rule on the motorway doesn't really work when you have idiots sitting in the middle lane. Unless you want to move across two lanes (undesirable if the inside lane is busy) you have no choice but to undertake if you want to go faster.

Saw someone who thought the rules didn't apply to him undertake on a 40 mph dual carriageway. He undertook and then slammed the brakes on in front of the other car (which was doing 40 mph), and then accelerated into the distance. It was one of those moments when you wished that it had been witnessed by the police so he could get his come-uppence.

 

[BentMikey]

Even the no undertake rule on the motorway doesn't really work when you have idiots sitting in the middle lane. Unless you want to move across two lanes (undesirable if the inside lane is busy) you have no choice but to undertake if you want to go faster.

That doesn't sound like good driving to me. Why not just wait behind until you can overtake?

 

[gaz]

Saw someone who thought the rules didn't apply to him undertake on a 40 mph dual carriageway. He undertook and then slammed the brakes on in front of the other car (which was doing 40 mph), and then accelerated into the distance. It was one of those moments when you wished that it had been witnessed by the police so he could get his come-uppence.

Should the car he undertook have been in that lane? I say this as the other car was able to undertake him.
I think some people think they don't have to use lane 1 if they are going the speed limit and as such sit on the right lane or in the middle lane when they shouldn't. This can cause issues with traffic levels backing up if it's a day where traffic is traveling particularly fast and could cause an 'accident' if one of these hot heads drivers like a plum and starts brake testing people.

 

[cd365]

Once you know the smallest amount about good cycling, you'll realise this is a totally specious argument.

Nothing in cyclecraft relies on any motorist knowing anything about it at all. Why would you even think that? Cyclecraft is all about altering your own riding to compensate for what motorists do, be it the instinctive stuff, the good practice based on the highway code, or even their mistakes.

My point is that Cyclecraft is often mentioned on here in relation to primary/secondary etc.and at the end of the day it is just a book with no legal significance. It's great if someone reads it and believes it makes them a better cyclist but it also seems to make them more militant in that if it is in Cyclecraft then it has to be right and seems to change their attitude to other road users. We all have to share the same road space and I believe that means we should all be thoughtful and considerate to other road users.
Motorists are not aware of the primary/secondary terminology, all they know from the highway code is that cyclists should keep to the left, there should be pressure on the government to get the Highway Code and the Theory test changed so that it reflects why a cyclist will take a certain road position.

 

[summerdays]

Should the car he undertook have been in that lane? I say this as the other car was able to undertake him.
I think some people think they don't have to use lane 1 if they are going the speed limit and as such sit on the right lane or in the middle lane when they shouldn't. This can cause issues with traffic levels backing up if it's a day where traffic is traveling particularly fast and could cause an 'accident' if one of these hot heads drivers like a plum and starts brake testing people.

Well eventually they went right at a roundabout about a mile or more further on - we stayed behind them, as they were going at the speed limit anyway. There were other cars near by that the first car pulled in front of to pull into the first lane though all the rest were going about 40 mph. I would say that they probably had to brake when he pulled his manoeuvre. But just because one vehicle is being not being driven well, it isn't an excuse for everyone to break the rules.

 

[gaz]

Well eventually they went right at a roundabout about a mile or more further on - we stayed behind them, as they were going at the speed limit anyway. There were other cars near by that the first car pulled in front of to pull into the first lane though all the rest were going about 40 mph. I would say that they probably had to brake when he pulled his manoeuvre. But just because one vehicle is being not being driven well, it isn't an excuse for everyone to break the rules.

If they were not passing traffic in lane 1 for the next mile, then I would say that is poor lane management.
But as you say, that is no excuse for others driving like a fool.

 

[gaz]

My point is that Cyclecraft is often mentioned on here in relation to primary/secondary etc.and at the end of the day it is just a book with no legal significance. It's great if someone reads it and believes it makes them a better cyclist but it also seems to make them more militant in that if it is in Cyclecraft then it has to be right and seems to change their attitude to other road users. We all have to share the same road space and I believe that means we should all be thoughtful and considerate to other road users.
Motorists are not aware of the primary/secondary terminology, all they know from the highway code is that cyclists should keep to the left, there should be pressure on the government to get the Highway Code and the Theory test changed so that it reflects why a cyclist will take a certain road position.

I guess you haven't read cyclecraft.

___

All motorists know is that cyclists should keep left from the highway code? Where does it say anything along those lines in the highway code?

 

[cd365]

Nope I haven't and doubt I ever will.

 

[gaz]

Nope I haven't and doubt I ever will.

Aaaah ok, perhaps it would be an idea to read it, so you have a good understanding of what is actually said in it.

I quickly edited my previous post, so I presume you missed my second point. I will put it below
All motorists know is that cyclists should keep left from the highway code? Where does it say anything along those lines in the highway code?

 

[summerdays]

If they were not passing traffic in lane 1 for the next mile, then I would say that is poor lane management.
But as you say, that is no excuse for others driving like a fool.

I would agree on the lane management, I was expecting to see an elderly person in the car when we entered the roundabout side by side when they turned off the dual carriageway. Whereas it was a 30 something male.

 

[cd365]

Aaaah ok, perhaps it would be an idea to read it, so you have a good understanding of what is actually said in it.

I quickly edited my previous post, so I presume you missed my second point. I will put it below
All motorists know is that cyclists should keep left from the highway code? Where does it say anything along those lines in the highway code?

I don't think it says it in the latest HC, but I think it used to.

 

[theclaud]

I don't think it says it in the latest HC, but I think it used to.

Convincing stuff!

 

[cd365]

I also remember doing my cycle proficiency test many years ago and was taught to ride on the left, anyone of my generation will have been taught that and it will not have been corrected at any point (unless they are still a cyclist and read forums or Cyclecraft!). So there is now a whole generation of car drivers who wrongly believe that a cyclist should ride in the gutter!!

I had never heard of primary/secondary/taking the lane etc. until I joined CycleChat. I did some of it already due to being a motorcyclist as well. But I still tend to do most of my riding in secondary and only take primary when I feel the road conditions warrant it, e.g. pinch points, turning right

 

[cd365]

I can only talk about my generation (i.e. when I did my cycling proficiency), I don't know when they stopped telling cyclists to do that.
Someone more knowledgeable on the subject will no doubt know.