grumpyoldgit
Über Member
- Location
- Surrey
Genuine guy,nice response.
BBC helmet cam film to explore cyclist-motorist conflict
- Thread starter Mr Haematocrit
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Genuine guy,nice response.
That's superb, thanks for linking.
benborp
Guru
- Location
- further from Penge
Interviewer: What will you do in a situation where maybe it's not clear that you need more space to make a manoeuvre? Is this one of those times that you will 'command the road'.
Gaz: I will command the road. There are times when it's necessary to take a strong position so that other road users can clearly see my intentions and have time to respond to my manoeuvres. This helps towards smoother negotiation over road space.
'There is no space to overtake, so I am not going to give you the space.'
Meaning there is either space to overtake safely or there is not. In such a situation many passing take the option to pass dangerously.
Good cycling, to Bikeability standards is often perceived as arrogant for some reason.
I didn't want to watch the programme, but was overruled by the Doris. It was an odd old mix that reminded me of the post-footy talk-shows on 5 Live ( "Tonight on Tony Livsey we're asking you about penis enlargement, tomorrow we'll be tackling climate change"). The cycle cop and mother were both worthy of documentaries in their own right but much of the rest was just bear-baiting. A day of rage on the forums, but it'll move the safety/behaviour of cyclists on not one bit.
Wow - back in commuting after all these years!
Wow - back in commuting after all these years!
grumpyoldgit
Über Member
- Location
- Surrey
Silly me,I thought I had said this already ' Meaning there is either space to overtake safely or there is not. In such a situation many passing take the option to pass dangerously. '
Oh yes,so I had,you must have missed this in your haste to defend your hero.
Oh yes,so I had,you must have missed this in your haste to defend your hero.
If you want to open another thead about this you are quite welcome to, the last one was 42 pages I believe, it was 18 months ago, give it a rest this thead is about the film last night not about me or your cravings to establish that I was in the wrong, which I was, or that there was racist tones to the title which I changed asap & stated on the video that no racist tones were intended & any racist comments would be deleted
benborp
Guru
- Location
- further from Penge
Sorry, you quoted Gaz as saying 'There is no space to overtake,so I am not going to give you the space' and then said 'There is either space or there is not'
You did not say 'Meaning there is either space to overtake safely or there is not. In such a situation many passing take the option to pass dangerously.' I did in an attempt to refine your statement.
I'm not looking to defend Gaz. He's not my hero. You asked how Gaz's statements could be edited. I gave examples of how in conversation or an interview they could have been presented, qualified or clarified to appear less abrasive.
Grendel
Veteran
Overall, the BBC's permanent and frustrating quest for 'balance' was at fault here, resulting in a prog that was nothing but counterposed tit-for-tat anecdotes without any context.
Adequate context might have included:
When you are a motorist, you have extra responsibility because you have extra power - power to harm and to kill. Without recognition of that basic point, and the basic *imbalance* of the situation that follows from it, all 'balance' is just bollox.
Adequate context might have included:
- the Highway Code and the duty of care it imposes on drivers for more vulnerable road users,
- the TRL stats which show the vast majority of RTCs involving cars and bikes are the driver's fault, and
- the fact that 'taking the lane' (which the prog suggested was just vigilantism) is recommended best practice from TfL/DfT/IAM/AA/Bikeability.
When you are a motorist, you have extra responsibility because you have extra power - power to harm and to kill. Without recognition of that basic point, and the basic *imbalance* of the situation that follows from it, all 'balance' is just bollox.
Scruffmonster
Über Member
- Location
- London/Kent
People complaining that this programme didn't portray cycling in a good light kind of miss the point. It didn't try to.
It sought to portray the two warring factions. Cyclists and other road users. Gaz used the term 'War'. He can complain about it being an unfair edit - and plenty of people here seem to tesify to that - but a lot of silly things were said.
Helmet Camera cyclists are generally bad for cycling. Their intentions are good, but they feed the Us Vs Them mentality and make things worse. They add fuel to the fire and never try to put it out. They're more interested in 'Likes' and 'Views' over any tangible positive effect.
If these cyclists truly wanted to effect change with a camera there are so many things that they could do. Pick a terrible road junction on your commute, used by lots of commuters. Document it daily, produce a combination of videos, send it to the relevant agencies. Suggest changes for that section of road. Maybe it's the removal of a railing, or that a certain kerb is too high/long. Maybe an ASL needs repainting, or you've noticed that a cycle path could benefit from being a bit wider near a junction. Maybe a sign obscures a view at a certain key point.It may take 2 years to change one thing, but you could truly save a life. You could cycle through there and think 'I did this. I made this better'. That's simply one idea.
There are so many things that you guys could do. You just can't be bothered to do real things, as you really don't care enough. I'm sure that a tiny minority do actually go further, and I salute you. It's a job that I'm not taking on. I too am too busy and too lazy. I admit it.
Yet I don't post confrontational videos on the internet. I don't seek to highlight the bad in a tiny insignificant minority of drivers to kid myself that I'm saving people. You're not. You may educate a certain number of cyclists, you may help the odd few in other ways, but the time you put in, charging batteries, downloading, uploading, editing, commenting... It's a waste of good intentions, a waste of a life.
I genuinely do applaud your starting point. The pocket full of good intentions and a desire to change things.... I just really wish you'd all take a moment to think how much more you could achieve if you used that energy in a more productive way.
It sought to portray the two warring factions. Cyclists and other road users. Gaz used the term 'War'. He can complain about it being an unfair edit - and plenty of people here seem to tesify to that - but a lot of silly things were said.
Helmet Camera cyclists are generally bad for cycling. Their intentions are good, but they feed the Us Vs Them mentality and make things worse. They add fuel to the fire and never try to put it out. They're more interested in 'Likes' and 'Views' over any tangible positive effect.
If these cyclists truly wanted to effect change with a camera there are so many things that they could do. Pick a terrible road junction on your commute, used by lots of commuters. Document it daily, produce a combination of videos, send it to the relevant agencies. Suggest changes for that section of road. Maybe it's the removal of a railing, or that a certain kerb is too high/long. Maybe an ASL needs repainting, or you've noticed that a cycle path could benefit from being a bit wider near a junction. Maybe a sign obscures a view at a certain key point.It may take 2 years to change one thing, but you could truly save a life. You could cycle through there and think 'I did this. I made this better'. That's simply one idea.
There are so many things that you guys could do. You just can't be bothered to do real things, as you really don't care enough. I'm sure that a tiny minority do actually go further, and I salute you. It's a job that I'm not taking on. I too am too busy and too lazy. I admit it.
Yet I don't post confrontational videos on the internet. I don't seek to highlight the bad in a tiny insignificant minority of drivers to kid myself that I'm saving people. You're not. You may educate a certain number of cyclists, you may help the odd few in other ways, but the time you put in, charging batteries, downloading, uploading, editing, commenting... It's a waste of good intentions, a waste of a life.
I genuinely do applaud your starting point. The pocket full of good intentions and a desire to change things.... I just really wish you'd all take a moment to think how much more you could achieve if you used that energy in a more productive way.
CopperCyclist
Veteran
It is an offence, and I think from other previous stories the owner was charged with it - but that still doesn't get us the name we really want.
Miquel In De Rain
No Longer Posting
Didn't show that apology bit,nice guy.Made a mistake,we've all done it.
Just watched about 10 mins, I think some of the bad cycling behavior expressed in this show was taken out of context.
For example there is a scene where a cyclist is behind a cement trunk stop in traffic about 3 or 4 cars deep. The cyclist has a look up the road then mounts the footpath and that was all we saw.
I believe, assume, He was looking to see if there was a bike box at the read light. Since there was no space to filter through the traffic he mounted a clear footpath to then access the cycle box at the red light. Is this bad behavior? I would say he was doing his lungs a favour.
The the old Taxi guy came across to me as a really nice guy, from what i saw. Though he was pointing out the cyclist in a suit RLJing. I thought the cyclist was aware of the light changing patterns, as he probably cycling part of his day to day route, and was just jumping the red light before turning green, giving him a more commanding / safer position on the road. Again, no problem with that.
These are things you get to know as a cyclist.
The guy who got sandwiched between two overtaking white vans was in a terrible road position, not that that is an excuse.
Am i wrong?
For example there is a scene where a cyclist is behind a cement trunk stop in traffic about 3 or 4 cars deep. The cyclist has a look up the road then mounts the footpath and that was all we saw.
I believe, assume, He was looking to see if there was a bike box at the read light. Since there was no space to filter through the traffic he mounted a clear footpath to then access the cycle box at the red light. Is this bad behavior? I would say he was doing his lungs a favour.
The the old Taxi guy came across to me as a really nice guy, from what i saw. Though he was pointing out the cyclist in a suit RLJing. I thought the cyclist was aware of the light changing patterns, as he probably cycling part of his day to day route, and was just jumping the red light before turning green, giving him a more commanding / safer position on the road. Again, no problem with that.
These are things you get to know as a cyclist.
The guy who got sandwiched between two overtaking white vans was in a terrible road position, not that that is an excuse.
Am i wrong?
grumpyoldgit
Über Member
- Location
- Surrey
Sorry,misunderstood you.
This Gaz fella,strange name for parents to give an offspring,sets out looking for trouble,& is shocked when he finds it,absolutely crapping himself when he gets the reaction that he pushes so hard for,'I have got a helmet cam',right ,so this makes him superman.He is no better,or worse,than the jerk in the silver car.
