BBC helmet cam film to explore cyclist-motorist conflict

[subaqua]

Then they should start fecking using them!

we do
Sheff- Bydd y sefyllfa beicio addas ar gyfer unrhyw sefyllfa benodol yn aros yr un fath, er gwaethaf yr arwyddion ffordd a'r iaith a ddefnyddir amlaf
and yes i had to ring back home to be sure

The cycling position suitable for any particular situation will remain the same, despite the road signs and the language most commonly used

 

[Boris Bajic]

As a (very) former interpreter and trainer of interpreters, I am saddened by the attitude to languages and diversity that has been evident throughout the latter parts of this thread. There seems to be a brooad lack of understanding.

Using classifications long held in high regard by many who work with language, we can demostrate that world languages divide into the groups shown below:

1. English.

2. Foreign.

If an Englishman understands a language, it is likely to be English. It may be slightly foreign (Geordie, Scouse, Mancunian and similar) or it might be very foreign (Albanian, Basque, Welsh and so on). But Foreign is Foreign and the chief identifing characteristic is that we do not understand them and they do not understand us. That might be two characteristics, but it is one for the sake of my (winning) argument.

I didn't get where I am today.

 

[lukesdad]

As a (very) former interpreter and trainer of interpreters, I am saddened by the attitude to languages and diversity that has been evident throughout the latter parts of this thread. There seems to be a brooad lack of understanding.

Using classifications long held in high regard by many who work with language, we can demostrate that world languages divide into the groups shown below:

1. English.

2. Foreign.

If an Englishman understands a language, it is likely to be English. It may be slightly foreign (Geordie, Scouse, Mancunian and similar) or it might be very foreign (Albanian, Basque, Welsh and so on). But Foreign is Foreign and the chief identifing characteristic is that we do not understand them and they do not understand us. That might be two characteristics, but it is one for the sake of my (winning) argument.

I didn't get where I am today.

Ah ! but can you interpret this F*** *** ?

 

[Andrew_P]

There are parts of my commute where the only sane place is secondary, would take a brave man to join the M23/A23 slip in primary..

I am with Gaz, I think the primary arguement works mostly with City commuter riding. Take it out to the A roads in the 40mph commuting burbs at your own risk. I played around with my postion for a while as I got the impression from forums that I should be in primary all the time, all I got was more aggro and more close passes. I still take primary at pinch points where I can

 

[BentMikey]

There are parts of my commute where the only sane place is secondary, would take a brave man to join the M23/A23 slip in primary..

I am with Gaz, I think the primary arguement works mostly with City commuter riding. Take it out to the A roads in the 40mph commuting burbs at your own risk. I played around with my postion for a while as I got the impression from forums that I should be in primary all the time, all I got was more aggro and more close passes. I still take primary at pinch points where I can

Perhaps you can give specific google maps streetview examples? A slip road seems to be a perfect case to drop to secondary, since it's wide and there's almost certainly traffic wanting to pass.

It's all a fine balance, choosing which risks are more significant, and doing your best to minimise them.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

“The primary riding position should be your normal riding position when you can keep up with traffic, when you need to emphasize your presence to traffic ahead, or when you need to prevent following drivers from passing you unsafely.”

Did you selectively not bold the entire sentence?

 

[lukesdad]

10 years reading books or 10 years riding roads ...hmm tough one

 

[lukesdad]

If you've only been riding for 10 years then you've got quite a few to catch up on me...

 

[gaz]

Err... you shouldn't be on an motorway slip road...

The slip road LOCO refers to is here and is at the end of the M23, 1 junction after the M25 and as such cars are often still traveling at +70mph when you join.

 

[Boris Bajic]

The User is exactly correct here. Primary is your default riding position. You'd drop to secondary whenever it's safe for you to compromise your position to make it easier for someone behind you to overtake. It might seem a bit counter-intuitive, but it's very logical once you read and understand Franklin's view.

Might be more helpful being a tad less confrontational, though, User.

More importantly though, let's remember that vehicular cycling, aka cycle craft, is a compensatory method for dealing with riding in amongst cars when we have no choice, rather than anything like near perfect Dutch conditions. It's not the best way towards getting large numbers of people cycling and in significantly better safety than we have in the UK. For that, we need to look to the Netherlands.

I can see why people would do this (the part in bold) and I understand the argument in its favour.

But... I do not agree with the default setting of Primary. I do not do it and never have. I have not taught my children to do it.

I teach them to ride assertively and to take what some might call Primary in certain situations, but by no means do I see it as a default position on rural or on inner-urban roads.

Only one is a driver and she is still not experienced behind the wheel (they are all teenagers) but they all have a fair amount of road experience for their few years on the planet.

I do not say that the default use of Primary is wrong, but it is not something I would consider and I find as both a cyclist and motorist of several decades' experience that Secondary as a default does not place me at extra risk, does not make me a gutter-hugging victim and seems to offer a good compromise between the speed I like to ride at and the wishes of other road users who may want to pass me.

 

[BentMikey]

Well, initially I thought the same way as you do, but now I realise just why it's such good advice. Narrow country lanes or smaller city roads with parked cars either side, for example - ride at the side, and an oncoming or passing driver will sometimes pass you at speed, forcing you into the hedge or parked cars. Ride in the middle, and you can bring them to a near stop, before passing each other carefully and safely. If the driver plays chicken, you can still dodge left at the right moment and you'll have slowed them to a somewhat safer speed, moved them over, and got reduced risk to yourself as a result. Most drivers would of course pass nicely regardless, and would slow anyway regardless of your position.

OTOH there are plenty of situations where I'd ride in secondary for extended distances. That doesn't change the fact that the default position is primary.

 

[lukesdad]

The only fact is BM, primary is the default position for you.

 

[Bassjunkieuk]

The only fact is BM, primary is the default position for you.

I suspect it's also slightly easier to maintain a decent pace on a 'bent

 

[gaz]

The only fact is BM, primary is the default position for you.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I cycle to brighton a few weeks back and less than 5% of my journey was spent in a primary position. Most of the roads where +40mph and I was pootling along. Where as in a city inviroment that would be different, slow traffic speeds, lots of traffic lights, more pinch points etc..
It all depends on where you ride.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Read the book and then you'll understand why I highlighted the first part of the sentence...

You could always just tell me why you left out most of the sentence. What you did changed how it read entirely. I'd assume with your knowledge it would be no problem for you to explain,without anyone else wondering the same having to spend £15.99