BigRingVR - The new leader of the pack?

[theboxers]

Do many of you get the 'Buffer low' message in the big grey box when using the HD video? I can stream HD movies from amazon / netflix without problems but have had this on a few rides on Bigring. Ride usually starts ok but after a while these messages pop up, and its not always on fast sections. Last night i had it a few times on the Gotthard Pass climb but once at the top and on the fast bit (where i thought it'd pop up again as video playing faster?) it was ok

I've pre downloaded some of the rides for my next session which should prevent it, and i could switch to the lower detail videos but HD is so nice!

Now forgive my lack of technical knowledge but would having a bigger buffer solve this problem? Is this something in the software or hardware?

Thanks

I've never had this and I'm on max video resolution. My setup is wired via a powerline adapter not wifi.

 

[ibooij]

@martin22 There are two kinds of buffer low messages.

It can be a "Download buffer is low or empty" or "Video playback buffer is low or empty". The first one indicates that downloading could not be done quickly enough to keep up with playing. We try to keep a download buffer of about 3 minutes riding.
The other, the "Video playback buffer" is an in-memory buffer of frames that have gone through the video decoder. This buffer is a lot smaller, as it has to be kept in memory. We use pretty aggressive compression to be able to stream HD video at reasonable bit rates, so the compression can be pretty hard on your CPU. If the CPU cannot keep up, this can lead to the "Video playback buffer is low or empty" message.

The fact that it didn't happen on the downhill can be explained by the fact that we take out video frames on fast parts like downhills, to prevent exactly this issue.

 

[berty bassett]

@martin22 There are two kinds of buffer low messages.

It can be a "Download buffer is low or empty" or "Video playback buffer is low or empty". The first one indicates that downloading could not be done quickly enough to keep up with playing. We try to keep a download buffer of about 3 minutes riding.
The other, the "Video playback buffer" is an in-memory buffer of frames that have gone through the video decoder. This buffer is a lot smaller, as it has to be kept in memory. We use pretty aggressive compression to be able to stream HD video at reasonable bit rates, so the compression can be pretty hard on your CPU. If the CPU cannot keep up, this can lead to the "Video playback buffer is low or empty" message.

The fact that it didn't happen on the downhill can be explained by the fact that we take out video frames on fast parts like downhills, to prevent exactly this issue.

you thought about things didnt you

 

[ibooij]

@berty bassett That's my job (and hobby) :-)

 

[martin22]

Thanks for the reply, can't remember exactly which message it was, I'll see if it happens again. Might be the video one as it's only an i3 processor!

 

[ibooij]

@martin22 That i3 might be the cause of the issue. We are working on using more of the special hardware in the CPU for accelerated video decoding, but that will probably take a while.

 

[MasterDabber]

Ilja. Just to give a bit of info from my perspective.... I've had the "Video Buffer message" happen to me twice. Once on Amstel Gold 1 and once on Amstel Gold 2, (on Amstel Gold 2 I was running with it pre-downloaded).

My laptop config includes...

Intel i7 5500OU CPU at 2.4 GHz
16GB Ram
Intel Graphics 5500
NVidia Geoforce 920M

These are the only two occasions it's happened to me and all other times I've never had any problem of any sort.

 

[ibooij]

@MasterDabber That configuration should be more then enough. Of course, there might be circumstances in which decoding cannot keep up, for instance when the computer is very busy AND the frame rate is very high at a certain point. Did the message stay on the screen for long in your case?

The Amstel videos are pretty hard in that there are lots of small ups and downs, so the frame rate will go up and down quite often.

 

[MasterDabber]

@ibooij It was worst on Amstel 1. It appeared a few times and, from memory, stayed up for maybe 20 seconds.
On Amstel 2 it only appeared once and was probably on screen for about 7 or 8 seconds.
Amstel 1 was streamed, Amstel 2 was downloaded.
All other apps were closed.

From memory, both with Amstel 1 and 2 it appeared soon after one of the little climbs on a sort of plateau section.

 

[Srinivasa]

... same problems with Amstel 1 and 2, the first being downloaded, while the second streamed. A solution, but just from an
aesthetic point of view could be to do not display continuously the same message. Perhaps, BRVR could consider to show it in the usual big-mode, switching to just a small rectangle after a while.
It is worth to mention that I do not have the same problems using (in some cases, rather old) videos coming from third parties, as in the case of past Tacx ones.
As a last line, I would also like to underline that I am using a Dell i7, with 1GB dedicated GPU, just to play bicycle video simulators, as in the case of BRVR (which has recently taken the KOM place defenestrating Bkool from the first place ).

 

[ibooij]

@Srinivasa The fact that this issue does not happen with other videos, e.g. Tacx ones, is mostly caused by the compression we use, which is a lot harder on the CPU. May I ask what GPU you have?

We'll take another look at the Amstel videos to see where we can optimize to improve the videos.

We'll also look at changing the size of the message. It's indeed a tad on the big size.

Thanks for your input!

 

[martin22]

I'm thinking of getting a refurbished desktop pc to run BigRing on, is there a minimum spec processor you'd reccommend for the HD videos, and is a seperate graphics card needed or will onboard graphics eg intel HD 4000 be ok?


Also, completely unrelated but when you look at a completed ride on the website, can someone explain what the Power Curve and Power Distribution graphs mean?

Thanks!

 

[theboxers]

I'm thinking of getting a refurbished desktop pc to run BigRing on, is there a minimum spec processor you'd reccommend for the HD videos, and is a seperate graphics card needed or will onboard graphics eg intel HD 4000 be ok?


Also, completely unrelated but when you look at a completed ride on the website, can someone explain what the Power Curve and Power Distribution graphs mean?

Thanks!

I run an intel nuc i5 with integrated hd4000 graphics and have seen no issues so far. Mind you that is all it does, bkool and BRVR.

 

[Srinivasa]

@Srinivasa ..... May I ask what GPU you have?

[...]

Thanks for your input!

Sorry for the late reply... the CPU is an i7 , but not the last version. The laptop is overall not a superfast machine,
but it reasonably handles sophisticated SWs, as in the case of Bkool :O

Concerning the big seized messages... I really appreciate your efforts to minimize them

 

[ibooij]

Also, completely unrelated but when you look at a completed ride on the website, can someone explain what the Power Curve and Power Distribution graphs mean?

The power curve shows for how long you've sustained a certain wattage. If you take a look at the power curve here https://www.bigringvr.com/activity.aspx?rideID=34513, you'll see (when you hover over the power curve), that the rider has sustained a maximum average power of 225W over 7 minutes, and an average of 200W over 30 minutes. Note that over 8:30 minutes, the average was 229W. This seems strange, until you realize what happens when you do intervals.

Say you do 3 1 minute intervals. 1st at 250W, 2nd at 150W and 3rd at 250W again. Maximum averages are:
1 minute: 250W (one of either 250W intervals)
2 minutes: 200W (one 250W interval and one 150W interval)
3 minutes: 216W (two 250W intervals and one 150W interval)

The power distribution chart shows in how much time you've spent at a certain power level. The ride in the link above was pretty "normal", because most power is at endurance level, with a bit above (climbing) and below (descending). When you do short intensive intervals, this chart will show a large peak on the left, for the "off" intervals, and a peak on the right, for the "on" intervals.

I hope this clears things up!