Bradford Cycle Lane

Discussion in 'Advocacy and Cycling Safety' started by glenn forger, 18 May 2015.

  1. NorthernDave

    NorthernDave Never used Über Member

    Time for my weekly update:
    24th October (one week after the much delayed "offical" opening of the route from Leeds- Seacroft) - still not finished!
    And unsurprisingly there is still lots to do, but to keep us entertained in the meantime, I've got a few more pics of what you get for £2 million per mile.
    Apologies again for the quality.

    Here we have the outbound route between the Torre Rd flyover and Harehills Lane.
    As you can see, the cycleway has been highlighted across the junction in green and despite road markings elsewhere on the route showing the vehicles on the road must give way to cyclists on the CSH, here we see a Give Way sign for the cyclist, who has to perform a tricky 270 degree appraisal of the traffic before proceeding. Bear in mind that any traffic turning in here is coming off a 40mph dual carriageway.
    CSH YR01.JPG
    Same junction, but look - the road markings for traffic exiting the office park say that they must give way to cyclists on the CSH. While this is undoubtedly for the best, it is at odds with the other side of the junction and is bound to lead to confusion, or worse. Also note how the old "non-super" cycle lane is still very much in place on the carriageway.
    CSH YR02.JPG

    Not a great pic next, but it does highlight a good point. Notice how the CSH is sandwiched between the footpath and the newly installed parking bay, putting the cyclist (just visible next to the red car) right in the door gap. What you can't see so well here due to the quality of the pic is the appalling quality of the workmanship here.
    CSH YR03.JPG

    Next pic is the CSH approaching Killingbeck Drive, the retail park where Asda is. Again, not a great pic, but you can make out the depth of fallen leaves already collected in the CSH by the way they obscure the inner kerb. This was reported last week, but remains uncleared.
    Again, note the "non-super" cycle lane still in place on the carriageway.
    CSH YR04.JPG

    This is a good one, just past Killingbeck Cemetery at the entrance to Lyme Chase, we have this confusing mess of road markings.
    Who gives way to who here? Remember any vehicles are exiting / entering a 40mph dual carriageway here.
    CSH YR05.JPG
    Anyway, there is a gap from the bus shelter you can see above right past the petrol station and shops right up to the traffic lights just past Burger King, where there is nothing. No CSH, in fact no cycling provision at all. No cycle lane, no shared path, just a 40mph dual carriageway that opens out to 4 lanes as it passes through the traffic lights (at the lights there is an ASL though, so that's alright). And oddly a 1990's off road cycle path that is about 50m long and leads to a toucan crossing, where after crossing two sets of lights you can join the restarted CSH.

    And finally, you might remember that I've mentioned the dangerous junction of the A64 (Barwick Rd) and York Rd at Seacroft?
    CSH YR06.JPG
    The good news is that they've finally painted it green and although the white lines have yet to go in, you can see (just) where they have chalked in where they are about to put in Give Way markings for cyclists. This is probably wise - it goes against most of the other priorities nearby, but would you really cycle straight over this junction and assume that a car driver coming off the 40mph dual carriageway would give way to you? I certainly wouldn't.
    The faux-by-four is in the standard position here for traffic waiting to pull onto the main road, which will inevitably lead to conflict with any cyclists.

    Clearly there is still a lot of work to do, but I can't see how they're going to salvage this now. Parts of it are excellent, but there is so much that is just wrong that it undoes any positives.
    MarkF and classic33 like this.
  2. mjr

    mjr Wanting to Keep My EU Citizenship

    At a four way give way (which is what they seem to have created a few times there), you give way to who was there first, else to the right, else to the bravest...well, that's one theory!
    NorthernDave likes this.
  3. NorthernDave

    NorthernDave Never used Über Member

    Update: 16th November - still not finished...and certain bits which are now sorted are shocking. The shared space footway (painted white line) from Lyme Chase up to the BP filling station being the latest example, especially how it crosses the petrol station access road and dumps cyclists back in the live carriageway with just a bit of paint on the dual carriageway to protect them :eek:

    But I've noticed that York Road is being resurfaced all the way from Highways flats (just below the Asda at Killingbeck) right up to the Shaftesbury junction. I wonder if the cost of this much needed highways maintenance is being included in the CSH costs?
    It might go some way to explaining the £29m (or £1m/km) cost of the scheme if it is?
    classic33 likes this.
  4. classic33

    classic33 Legendary Member

    Seen a few nervous riders on the York Road section. Drivers just ignoring it.
    NorthernDave likes this.
  5. MarkF

    MarkF Guru

  6. mjr

    mjr Wanting to Keep My EU Citizenship

    It always amazes me how many motorists seem to think their cars sweep the roads and Roadsweepers don't exist or are cosmetic ornaments or something. One reason why a cycle track should never be narrower than a Roadsweeper, never make a zero radius corner and never have unopenable access restrictions on both ends is that maintenance vehicles need to get onto it, else it probably won't be cleaned properly, won't have vegetation cut properly and won't be repaired properly because they'll have to do it all without vehicles and large machinery, which is more difficult and more expensive. It's scandalous that most councils still don't seem to accept this.
    NorthernDave likes this.
  7. NorthernDave

    NorthernDave Never used Über Member

    Well, it's only been "finished" for a few months and already the CSH is closed both ways at Killingbeck.

    Inbound it's been closed for weeks as part of council highways 'improvements' which seem to consist of a new access road into the hospital site (presumably for the new housing development) and now on the outbound side as well where the bus lane is also closed and the kerb stones have been removed.

    So, just as the weather starts to improve and user numbers will pick up, cyclists are being pushed back onto the dual carriageway...
  8. growingvegetables

    growingvegetables Guru

    Just "Wow!". The folks that brought us the "Cycling Super Highway", not content with bad planning, and worse construction, have managed to find another unholy way to piss me off. Well and truly.

    City Connect is working with the university to design (an) app ... to encourage cyclists to learn about road safety while riding along the segregated route between Bradford and Leeds

    A message for the idiots at City Connect. I DO NOT NEED ENCOURAGEMENT TO LEARN ABOUT ROAD SAFETY; IT'S MY LIFE ON 12KG OF FLIMSY METAL! If anybody needs such encouragement, it's the City Connect designers themselves; or the moronic Stanningley residents who think sprinkling the CSH with broken glass will restore their house values (yup, they really are that stupid - the CSH "has seriously devalued our houses"!); or the numpties who think the CSH is there - for them to park on. And as for the dangerously selfish ******s who think the cycle lane is an advanced stop line for their fiddle-panzers ..... :evil:

    [edited - not what I typed! Aye, it's hard to maintain any level of righteous zealous anger when my word becomes "fiddle-panzers" :laugh:]
    Last edited: 24 Mar 2017
    classic33 likes this.
  9. NorthernDave

    NorthernDave Never used Über Member

    It does seem incredibly patronising - and this from a pair of local authorities who are constantly crying about how skint they are...which is presumably why there is virtually zero enforcement of the clearly signposted parking regs.

    But, can I suggest something that might annoy you even more?
    The whole outbound section of the CSH past Asda at Killingbeck (one of the last bits to be finished last year, and which was apparently delayed due to them finding a gas main beneath where it was going) has been ripped up.
    Yep, less than a year old and a whole stretch of it is gone - ironically to allow them to extend the gas main across York Road into the new development that is going up behind Seacroft Hospital.
    Given the cost of the whole scheme, that must be getting on for £500,000 worth of cycleway that's now been closed and dug up?

    Oh and of course on the opposite side of York Road, the bike lane is closed for them to put the access road to the development in.
    You really couldn't make it up! :cursing:
  10. classic33

    classic33 Legendary Member

    NGN/British Gas are expecting the work at Seacroft to be completed by the end of next year, 2018.
  11. NorthernDave

    NorthernDave Never used Über Member

    I knew it was work on the gas main, but I didn't realise that they're dragging it out for nearly two years!
    Lets hope the CSH is back in place/use before then - and reinstated to a high standard, which is something that rarely follows after works like this. Given that the development there has been in the offing for years, and it was the gas main that reportedly delayed the CSH getting finished there, you have to question why they put it in to simply rip it out again months later?
    Surely the sensible thing would have been to continue to have bikes sharing the existing and very wide bus lane until after the gas works were done and then do the CSH works..?
  12. growingvegetables

    growingvegetables Guru

    Ooooh - I know about all that crap. And the bit west of the Melbourne roundabout - the "this is difficult - ah fark it - forget it - throw the cyclists out into the traffic on one of the nastiest roundabouts in Leeds".

    That's pretty much what boiled my **** - that I need to "learn about road safety while riding a bike". Incompetent *******s. Worse - incompetent *******s with funding to be incompetent *******s. :cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing:
    NorthernDave likes this.
  13. classic33

    classic33 Legendary Member

    As far as I'm aware it's the sale of the hospital site that's delayed things. That was going to be closed two years ago.

    Gas work passed onto a sub-contractor, by the contractor. You'll see a fair few minor gas repairs this year in that area. And if the road surface doesn't match expectations(the road either side of the work), let them know. They're obliged by law to reinstate the road surface as it was before work began. Major problem is that they are using maps/plans that were drawn up in most cases in the '70's. Updating them as new pipes are laid only.

    You have this as well, in that area. Inbound has started.
    16 Jan - 31 Aug 2017
    A64 York Road, Burmantofts,
    Somerville Green to Seacroft Hospital Entrance

    A64 York Road, Burmantofts,
    Killingbeck Drive - Watson Road
    1 Apr 2017 - 31 Jan 2018
    NorthernDave likes this.
  14. NorthernDave

    NorthernDave Never used Über Member

    Time for an update.

    Due to an unexpected diversion of todays ride, I've now cycles the entire outbound section of CS1 (as the CSH is now known to the East of Leeds city centre) and can offer the following critique...

    As local cyclist knows, the CSH / CS1 and CS2 dump you on either side of the city centre and then leave you to make your own way across to the other section.
    Today I rode down New York Street, York Street and the life in your hands experience that is the 6-lane wide Marsh Lane intersection, where to the best of my knowledge there is no cycling infrastructure at all for cyclists heading east.
    The only way I could see to get onto CS1 was to kerb hop through a pelican crossing as there appears to be no access from the carriageway onto the cycleway.
    This gives you quite a tight radius turn onto the CSH proper and off we go up the hill.
    At the first bus stop the CSH takes a narrowed slalom around it and continues to climb
    Just before the next bus stop there is an obvious but unaddressed potential for conflict with peds coming out of the housing estate, but it's the bus stop itself that is the big concern here. Simply the shared space is too narrow and you're entirely dependent on peds at the bus stop playing the game and letting you through. If they stand even a foot or two too far back you've got nowhere to go.
    Thankfully it's only a very short section and then the CSH opens out a bit, onto what the signs suggest is purely a cycleway (although I've seen plenty of people walking on it). it's just as well it opens out though as there is quite a bit of overhanging foliage encroaching on your path.
    Past the pet shop and to the top of the hill, before the descent down to the Torre Road junction, where it all goes horribly wrong.
    Firstly priorities are confused at the roundabout with no clear direction as to who should give way to who, then just past the Ford dealer the cycleway simply ends with a no cycling sign.
    What you have to do is use two pelican crossings (the first a ridiculously tight turn from the CSH) to cross to the opposite side of the road, where a shared space takes you to another pelican crossing (more very tight turns) - except none of this is clear and there are no signs to direct you.
    Once over it's along past the little retail park where peds want to cross the CSH to get to the bus stop and along a nice sensible bit of segregated cycleway, before being plunged back onto the carriageway on a painted cycle lane through the Shaftesbury lights and back onto a narrow bit of CSH, then a shared space at a pelican crossing where peds will be stood waiting to cross, then more CSH squeezed between the footpath and a parking bay, putting you right into the door zone.
    The CSH section around Gipton Approach is another complicated, twisting stop start wiggle through at least 4 sets of crossing lights, so I just though sod that and rejoined the road for this bit.

    Back on the CSH after the junction, more tight radius curves crossing the next couple of roads and then the section up to Asda at Killingbeck which is one of the best bits. Fairly flat, actually wide enough for cyclists to pass each other (most of the CSH isn't wide enough for overtakes), but the final part of this section is under trees and there is a lot of debris in it - leaves, twigs, small branches, fruit, etc - making it a bit slippery under wheel.
    Another 3 sets of crossing lights to negotiate at the entrance to Asda and then the CSH climbs past the store.
    Today there was an oil spill running down the CSH, fortunately easily visible due to the rain, from a crashed vehicle on the roadway which was awaiting recovery. A half hearted attempt had been made to address this with a small amount of sand but this had been overwhelmed and with the wet weather it was spreading dangerously (I reported it as soon as I got home).
    Across Oak Tree Lane (2 more crossing lights), then a narrow shared space, another bus top to negotiate and past the cemetery and more shared space by the garage before being dumped back onto the road on a painted cycle lane.

    At the former Melbourne roundabout the CSH officially carries on alongside York Road, but I was headed for Cross Gates so needed to get across - but there is no apparent way to get across the 4 lanes of York Road onto Cross Gates Road, so I ended up using the pelican crossing, with tactile surfaces for the visually impaired which were very slippery in the wet under bike tyres.
    This dumps you on a piece of vintage 1990's cycling infrastructure which runs for about 100 yards and then just stops. Is the path a shared space from here, or should I get off and push? There are no signs to tell you so I just carried on, but really?

    At the next crossing I crossed and took the painted cycle lane on the road, avoiding the several parked cars.
    However the cycle lane simply runs out well short of the roundabout and again, there are no directions or provisions for cyclists onto the notorious and busy Cross Gates roundabout so you're on your own until a painted cycle lane re-appears again three-quarters of the way round it.

    So in summary, parts are good, but too much of it is terrible.
    There are far too many sections that are only really wide enough for one bike, so no overtaking / passing.
    More worrying though are the number of conflict points with pedestrians, which are apparently resolved by slapping a bit of green paint on the tarmac.
    There is the poor maintenance (lack of clearing under trees?) and perhaps worse are the number of tortuous multiple crossings where cyclists have to stop frequently to request permission to proceed. And all those tight curves - why? You're frequently checked back to below walking speed and on a couple I felt the need to actually stop to position the bike as the turns were simply too tight.
    And there are the difficult bits, where rather than come up with a solution they seem to have simply not bothered...and the inconsistency in priorities at junctions.

    Having now ridden the eastern section, my honest opinion is that it was designed by someone who either doesn't cycle, or doesn't have to use it.
    Last edited: 9 Sep 2017
  15. growingvegetables

    growingvegetables Guru

    Try down Kirkgate, past the Duck and Drake, under the bridge, cross to the pavement in front of St Peters (I believe it's shared-use); across the middle of the roundabout, and just past Coop Funeral, take the (pedestrian :sad:) crossing over to the other side, and it's signed cycle route thru to CS1.

    A tad longer - but it avoids that VILE traffic lights at St Peter St (?) - that looooong, looooooooong space where the timing of the lights doesn't allow for cyclists to clear the junction.

    The biggest danger perhaps is that those bus stops are so rarely used? At least at the well-used stops, pedestrians are usually pretty good, and getting used to the layout (I exclude the bus stop at Romart Stores - the people there make sheep look like Einstein :sad::eek::eek::eek:).

    ... when it would have been so much easier just to share the buslane over the flyover. :sad:

    OI! That's the Romart stop! They're all mad there!


    ... and stop there!

    For Cross Gates, at the garage cross over to the other side of York Road. Depending on where your're going, either through by the Blood Transfusion place, Maryfields, and Pooles to Cross Gates station; or along York Road to the lights and cross to the other side of Cross Gates Rd. :smile:

    I'm pretty sure the decision would have been ... remodelling the Melbourne roundabout ALONE to accommodate safe, convenient facilities for cycling would absorb the whole of the budget, and a wee bit more. Yup - it's that bad. It's been "nipped and tucked" so many times to "smooth vehicle flow" that, I'm guessing, the whole ****ing thing needs rethought, ripped up, and rebuilt from scratch.

    And you missed a long stretch where the CSH actually works pretty well :tongue:.

    ... or are waiting to do the full Monty; do the whole junction reconstruction at once. Like just below Seacroft Hospital for the new housing development?

    There's a couple of other places like that - the ring road rab between Stanningley and Bradford (which is supposed to be in the pipeline), and the Mike's Carpets rab in Armley :eek::eek::eek:.


    ... two different teams? One had the bit east of Melbourne RAB :smile:, and the other ... the rest :stop:.
    NorthernDave likes this.
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