Closest overtake ever
- Thread starter magnatom
- Start date
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tdr1nka
Taking the biscuit
- Location
- SE London, Bandit Country
Drivers simply hate cyclists filtering.
If I'm right Mag, you filtered between the lines of traffic to remain in view of drivers and establish you were continuing straight on?
I tend to hold a primary space in a queue like this, wait my turn for the lights and no longer race to the front as I once did in my youth, although I don't think that would have mattered a jot in this instance.
The driver is quite evidently out to prove a point by getting in front of you
as soon as they damn well can.
Well held and yes, report it.
If I'm right Mag, you filtered between the lines of traffic to remain in view of drivers and establish you were continuing straight on?
I tend to hold a primary space in a queue like this, wait my turn for the lights and no longer race to the front as I once did in my youth, although I don't think that would have mattered a jot in this instance.
The driver is quite evidently out to prove a point by getting in front of you
as soon as they damn well can.
Well held and yes, report it.
tdr1nka said:
If anything, I overtook the queue in the outside lane (you can see me look for following cars). I then looked for a safe gap and pulled in just to the right of the front wing of the escort. I find that this is in a nice visible position for the driver to see me. In fact as I passed I noticed the driver looking at me so I know he saw me. As the cars pull off I look back to check that he is holding back and letting me into the lane, which he did and then I took the primary, knowing that I tend to keep pace with the cars on this section (Today I was a little slower but not much!)
I feel safer doing that than pulling right to the front. In general it tends to antagonise the drivers less if you don't pull all the way to the front. It also means that you won't get caught out with a light change as you pull in front of the lead car.
Of course in this instance the chap must of got annoyed anyway, or he just couldn't be bothered waiting or pulling over. Either way, he gave me no respect and endangered me. When I get a chance I will report this, although it might be tomorrow.
OK I'm going to stick my neck out and sound a note of dissent, so battlehats on.
What you did was cut in front of him at the queue same as the taxi driver clip. Now you may call that filtering I call it impolite and inconsiderate.
Consider if someone had done that in a car, you'd honk and beep and be rightly pissed off. Now I used to do it on a motorbike but then I'd accelarate faster than the traffic, not slower. On a cycle, I'd filter but move out of the way and once moving get back into the traffic stream. I never filter and push into the queue, not in a car, not on a motorbike and not on a cycle.
That does not excuse his driving by the way but quite honestly doing what you are doing is wrong in my view and if anyone says it's not, I very much doubt I'd agree with them.
What you did was cut in front of him at the queue same as the taxi driver clip. Now you may call that filtering I call it impolite and inconsiderate.
Consider if someone had done that in a car, you'd honk and beep and be rightly pissed off. Now I used to do it on a motorbike but then I'd accelarate faster than the traffic, not slower. On a cycle, I'd filter but move out of the way and once moving get back into the traffic stream. I never filter and push into the queue, not in a car, not on a motorbike and not on a cycle.
That does not excuse his driving by the way but quite honestly doing what you are doing is wrong in my view and if anyone says it's not, I very much doubt I'd agree with them.
Crackle said:
No need for battlehats. I'd be worried if everyone here did agree!
As I am sure you know filtering is perfectly legal. Of course it is the responsibility of the filterer to do it safely. I believe I usually do and I know that on this occasion that I did.
Normally at this junction (not on this occasion) the traffic tails back towards the lights and across the junction. On these occasions if I didn't filter I would be left out in the middle of the junction which for me feels dangerous. So I normally filter. On this occasion there was no overhang, so I probably could have sat at the back. However, I also don't like being the last 'vehicle' in the queue at these lights (I think I would have been on this occasion although I can't be sure). The cars behind (held back by other lights), tend to accelerate aggressively, so I like the protection of a stationary car behind me when the lights change. That is why I move down the line of traffic. You could certainly argue that this fear is unjustified, it probably is, however, I just don't like being exposed at that junction.
Leaving these lights I generally accelerate up to at least 25mph by the bottom of the hill. The road is a 30mph speed limit. So I really don't hold any law abiding driver up by more than a few seconds. I know that at the rate I cycle, I and several following cars can make it through the next lights on green, when the road is clear. When the road is not clear, we all get held up at the next lights. So my presence has a limited effect on everyone else.
Of course as you said, even if I did not need to filter and even if I annoyed that driver for some reason, there is no way that he had the right to drive as he did. If I did anything wrong it was very minor. His was far from it!
Just thought I would expand on why I did what I did! I wondered when someone woud mention the filtering!
What do you think crackle?
Rab
Veteran
- Location
- Ayr, near Glasgae, y'know
magnatom said:
That thought did cross my mind too
Crackle said:
Never been much of a road rider myself, so I don't know much about much. But as a driver too, I think you'd be more annoyed by a cyclist before the lights than after the lights. I think people will be much more likely to take risks just to get through the lights while they stay green.
I do see the argument though and it was something I was wondering myself but I think it's just as case of having your own perception of what is right and wrong, relatively speaking rather than absolutely. And you'll find that's generally what causes road rage of any kind. I don't think you can win on this one because to some people you'll be wrong no matter what you do.
Sh4rkyBloke
Jaffa Cake monster
- Location
- Manchester, UK
The guy was an arse... if he was p*ssed at you for 'cutting in front' (which IMO you didn't) he'd have beeped at you and some gesticulation would also undoubtedly have ocurred... this was a simple case of him having no brain cell and being a sh*t driver.
Report him.
Insist it is taken further.
I'd have been tempted to chase him and give him a piece of my mind (and perhaps my cleats... but I wouldn't condone such behaviour though!!)
Report him.
Insist it is taken further.
I'd have been tempted to chase him and give him a piece of my mind (and perhaps my cleats... but I wouldn't condone such behaviour though!!)
Yes filtering is legal and yes you have the same right to the road as anyone else I am not disputing that. But what is legal and right may not be sensible, in this case I think your filtering, in particular where you stop is not sensible.
Here's what I would've have done, indeed have done for many years, just so you have a fair chance to critique me as well. Filter as you did but when I found my gap move in to the left of the car in a secondary position as it's now called. Traffic moves off, as do you, at a brisk pace. On moving off if the traffic moves off faster than you the driver has the option of going around you - at this point you are trusting the drivers judgement but hey you are anyway. If it moves off at the same speed you stay ahead anyway and can make a gradual move back to primary 'if necessary'.
The difference: Well no.1 you are not 'invading his space' so you are more likely to be considered/tolerated, No.2 the traffic is moving slower, so if he does decide to go around you when he shouldn't, then everything is happening that bit slower as opposed to further down the road when it's all going a bit faster.
I also have to say, go further up the queue, no more than three cars back but probably one or two. The first two cars (in rush hour) normally move smartly away. The third and fourth tend to lag but after that everyone has seen the queue moving and they're all away quickly.
Key to all this is eye contact and reading the road. What's on the outside of the car who has to pass you, how much space does the driver have, how does he look etc...
Now I have to say I have not commuted in town traffic for over 10 years and things change, traffic has sped up, there's more cars on the road, people seem less patient but in my view that's even more reason to cycle sensibly.
The trouble is that drivers do not think you have an equal right to the road, so asserting it has to be done more subtly.
That's my view anyway, I'd better be prepared to defend it.
Here's what I would've have done, indeed have done for many years, just so you have a fair chance to critique me as well. Filter as you did but when I found my gap move in to the left of the car in a secondary position as it's now called. Traffic moves off, as do you, at a brisk pace. On moving off if the traffic moves off faster than you the driver has the option of going around you - at this point you are trusting the drivers judgement but hey you are anyway. If it moves off at the same speed you stay ahead anyway and can make a gradual move back to primary 'if necessary'.
The difference: Well no.1 you are not 'invading his space' so you are more likely to be considered/tolerated, No.2 the traffic is moving slower, so if he does decide to go around you when he shouldn't, then everything is happening that bit slower as opposed to further down the road when it's all going a bit faster.
I also have to say, go further up the queue, no more than three cars back but probably one or two. The first two cars (in rush hour) normally move smartly away. The third and fourth tend to lag but after that everyone has seen the queue moving and they're all away quickly.
Key to all this is eye contact and reading the road. What's on the outside of the car who has to pass you, how much space does the driver have, how does he look etc...
Now I have to say I have not commuted in town traffic for over 10 years and things change, traffic has sped up, there's more cars on the road, people seem less patient but in my view that's even more reason to cycle sensibly.
The trouble is that drivers do not think you have an equal right to the road, so asserting it has to be done more subtly.
That's my view anyway, I'd better be prepared to defend it.
Sh4rkyBloke said:The guy was an arse... if he was p*ssed at you for 'cutting in front' (which IMO you didn't) he'd have beeped at you and some gesticulation would also undoubtedly have ocurred... this was a simple case of him having no brain cell and being a sh*t driver.
Report him.
Insist it is taken further.
I'd have been tempted to chase him and give him a piece of my mind (and perhaps my cleats... but I wouldn't condone such behaviour though!!)
Actually, your probably right. At least you are about him not being annoyed at me (not about chasing him and cleating the car
). When I looked back just before pulling of I glanced at him and he seemed completely non-plussed. I suppose he would have been aggressive towards me then if he was annoyed. I suppose he was just a poor driver.
domtyler
Über Member
Crackle, I can't be bothered to read all of that garbage but if you are saying that cyclists shouldn't filter then you must have received a nasty bump to head lately, the ability to filter through long queues of traffic is one of the main benefits of cycling you arse. I may agree about where he stops though, I wouldn't ever stop like that unless the lights changed. Just go straight to the front where you can control what is happening better.
domtyler said:
We'll have to disagree on that one. I find it safer to hang one or two cars back. I think it is more dangerous to try and push to the front and cut in front of the front car, especially if the lights change as you are doing it. I have commented on my feelings about ASL's elsewhere.
Where I position myself is almost in directly in front of their line of view (slightly to the right). Generally when I put my foot down to balance that takes me slightly closer to their line of view as well.
Anyway, this has no bearing on the close overtake that happens a reasonable distance away from this spot.
