Coroner wants cyclists to be educated about danger of HGV's

[Spinney]

No, not at all. I am comparing the responsibility of the more endangered parties in an interaction to take some sort of action to optimise their own chances of survival rather than just saying the other lot bear the responsibility:

Cyclists in urban traffic, monitors and observers in conflicts, rabbits in meadows.

I thought that was quite clear in my post and apologise if it wasn't. I thought the rabbit/buzzard gag made the same point.

I will try to find a simpler or clearer way to express it.

Don't bother. You will be deliberately misunderstood whatever you say...

 

[glenn forger]

We've all seen cyclists undertake, which makes it even more surprising that the practice doesn't hurt or kill many people. In London, every lorry driver should expect a cyclist on their nearside.

 

[glenn forger]

Where Mr Dorling died:

Boris and TFL should face corporate manslaughter charges.

 

[Spinney]

Where is the handbag smiley?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The number of cyclists I see on a regular basis undertaking vehicles at junctions and corners makes me think that many either don't know the dangers or simply just don't care.

Drivers on bikes. "Must get in front!", "MUST get in front!" "Must get in front NOW!" It's a mindset thing. They can't help themselves.

When the dangers start to dawn on them they become CEGB supporters and start campaigning for dedicated separate 'roads' for their vehicles.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

What is the source of the danger in your opinion ?

I'll take a guess that it is the rapid transfer of kinetic energy from an object of great mass made largely of steel to one with much less mass and made of flesh and blood?

But I am not a physicist. One will be along in a minute to advise us all.

 

[Linford]

Cyclists can be very experienced or very novice. And they're all legally obliged to use the terrible, life threatening infrastructure. Whats needed is proper, safe segregated cyclist friendly infrastructure that everyone who is physically capable of operating a bicycle from age 5 - 95 can use. Cyclists should not be same roads as HGV's.

This is a bad idea...it tells car drivers that cyclists have no place on the roads, and then they in turn think that is a sound and logical argument for us to not be there, and in turn treat us with contempt.
Also that 'cycling friendly infrastructure' will be taken from pedestrians (as it is already), and then we will get complaints from pedestrian groups of inconsiderate cyclists bullying dog walkers, people with small kids etc, etc

Go on...tell me I'm trolling for sharing my thoughts on this issue

 

[Sara_H]

This is a bad idea...it tells car drivers that cyclists have no place on the roads, and then they in turn think that is a sound and logical argument for us to not be there, and in turn treat us with contempt.
Also that 'cycling friendly infrastructure' will be taken from pedestrians (as it is already), and then we will get complaints from pedestrian groups of inconsiderate cyclists bullying dog walkers, people with small kids etc, etc

Go on...tell me I'm trolling for sharing my thoughts on this issue

Not so much trolling as utterly wrong.Other countries manage to have high numbers of cyclists without high numbers of fatalities because they have high quality infrastructure tha can be used by the vast majority of people - old and young alike.

 

[Linford]

Not so much trolling as utterly wrong.Other countries manage to have high numbers of cyclists without high numbers of fatalities because they have high quality infrastructure tha can be used by the vast majority of people - old and young alike.

The biggest shame about my 45mph descent in a 50 limit yesterday when about a dozen cars overtook me on solid while lines is that I didn't catch it on camera. I have no doubt that each and every one of them thought I should not have been there, and that is why they all chose to overtake me illegally. Would you like to suggest instead where I cycle in the countryside if not on the roads as the verges are rather crowded with hedges and ditches?

 

[400bhp]

Yes it is quite right that we each and every one of us should be armed with the knowledge to look after ourselves as best we can and, preferably to act accordingly. That is the pragmatic point.
That doesn't detract from the much more important consideration here. The coroner has reinforced the idea that thevictims of danger need to take responsibility for it. The reasonable point of view is that those who cause the danger should be made to take responsibilty for it. If this situation were anywhere other than on our roads we wouldn't need to talk about it because that would be the case already.

Don't agree Adrian.

The coroner was giving pragmatic advice to vulnerable road users.

Words can help to change behaviour immediately for cyclists. Less likely to do so for HGV drivers.

 

[400bhp]

Where Mr Dorling died:

Boris and TFL should face corporate manslaughter charges.

Does Boris work for a company?

 

[glenn forger]

TFL should face corporate manslaughter charges, Boris should just be taken outside and shot.

 

[gbb]

The number of cyclists I see on a regular basis undertaking vehicles at junctions and corners makes me think that many either don't know the dangers or simply just don't care.

Having spoken to my son, I think for many, they really just don't realise the danger.
He's just passed his CBT and rides a 100cc scooter. He came home one evening and was telling me he nearly got closed right down by some idiot lorry driver at a l/h turn at traffic lights.
Christ I said, you didn't try to get down the side of him did you ?
Yes...he was stopped, there was plenty of room
He cant see you in a lot of cases I explained. He's left room down the side because he's got to swing round, he needs the room. Its suicidal to get down the side of them.
I really hadn't thought about it, he said thoughtfully.
Unfortunately, he's not the idiot, you were, I explained tactfully.

It makes you realise, they sit in the car for years but don't absorb a fraction of whats happening around them, why would they ?
In the case of motorcycles, it also makes you realise how little training they get before they're out on the road. His naivety has been exposed so quickly. Half a day with an instructor and bobs your uncle, its a simple as that...but the lack of experience soon shows.

 

[Sara_H]

No he isn't. Every bit of seperate provision is a bit where drivers get more used to an absence of cyclists. In turn this makes the bits where they encounter cyclists more dangerous. It also reinforces the feeling that we do not belong on the road.
Now if you could achieve universal segregation suitable for all types of cyclist, I might be pursuaded to see it differently.

That argument doesn't hold water in countries with high quality segregation. Possibly because most people cycle they remain courteous to cyclists where they do share the road and drive carefully around them.
I know the vehicular cyclists are worried about losing their right to the road, but the kind of high quality cycling infrastructure that's in place in Copenhagen for example would have massive benefits for the majority of society, not just the testosterone fueled agressive vehicular cyclists.
At the minute, our children and elderly cant ride safely in this country. A massive seachange needs to happen, and arguing that an elite few wont be able to ride on the road at 45mph anymore is not a good argument against change.

 

[buggi]

EVERYONE needs educating!!! (except the ones who have already been educated)