COVID Vaccine !

Bazzer

Setting the controls for the heart of the sun.
Well, no actually. Part of the responsibility for the correct administration lies with the staff. Part lies with the patient.

I am sorry, I can't remember if you have had the jab yet, but if you have try to think how many times you were told at dose one what you were getting.
On arrival- this is an AZ clinic today.
On assessment while the nurse was typing on a computer- You are getting the AZ today, are you allergic to .......
On administration- I am going to give you the AZ vaccine today
Post administration- here is the leaflet for the AZ vaccine I have just administered
Post administration- because you have had the AZ vaccine you should now read the leaflet and wait 15 minutes in your car

At least 5 times, and a leaflet. My guess is you then spoke to your friends, and maybe even on here and said "I got the AZ and I felt tired" etc etc

When you go for number two you will be told on arrival, during assessment, pre-injection, on administration, so at least another 4 times. Now, unless you are Nicola Sturgeon or have different needs, you will know what you are about to receive. If you choose not to say anything, part of the responsibility falls to you, as with all healthcare decisions.

Do you know where most drug errors occur, and who is the most likely person to make one?
Definitely not 5 times with my jab. The first I was made aware of which vaccine I was being injected with, was while my arm was being prep'd and out of curiosity I asked whether I was being given the Pfizer or the AZ vaccine.
 
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Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
Definitely not 5 times with my jab. The first I was made aware of which vaccine I was being injected with, was while my arm was being prep'd and out of curiosity I asked whether I was being given the Pfizer or the AZ vaccine.
Essentially for the first jab, it doesn't matter what you get.

The second jab, at the moment should match the first. Everyone who has had the jab knows what they have been given.

If you rock up for the second and don't know what you had say that. If you know what you had and the one you are getting now doesn't match, say something.

You wouldn't sign up to have your appendix removed if you knew you had it removed 10 years ago would you?
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Where did you get vaccinated?
A town hall nearby that is operating as a NHS-led mass vaccination centre. I know from others locally that GP-led centres are operating slightly differently (which seems inevitable even if only because their buildings are lots of small rooms, not big halls with temporary screens) but I've not asked when people were told which vaccine was being used.

You wouldn't sign up to have your appendix removed if you knew you had it removed 10 years ago would you?
Can't you think of another procedure you have to have done twice the same way?
 

Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
Can't you think of another procedure you have to have done twice the same way?
If you banged your head and took two paracetamol for the pain, then thought 'I maybe should go to hospital' probably the first thing that will happen is that you will be offered two paracetamol by the triage nurse. They will ask you 'have you taken any pain killers in the last 4 hours?'

If you you say no, knowing that you have, take the extra paracetamol and you get poorly whose fault is that? Yours for lying or the nurse for administering?
 
If you banged your head and took two paracetamol for the pain, then thought 'I maybe should go to hospital' probably the first thing that will happen is that you will be offered two paracetamol by the triage nurse. They will ask you 'have you taken any pain killers in the last 4 hours?'

If you you say no, knowing that you have, take the extra paracetamol and you get poorly whose fault is that? Yours for lying or the nurse for administering?
People that bang their heads sometimes forget things.
 

ebikeerwidnes

Über Member
WHen I got my jab there was a big flat screen TV saying which one it was
followed by another a bit further down the queue
it also told you when your next jab was due
Then I was told which one it was at the table
then I was given a leaflet about it
and an appointment card with the name and date and time on it

Sounds like each area/centre does it their own way and some will be better than others
 

Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
That confirms my initial instinct - do NOT get involved in this heavy-weight discussion!!!
So you can't say who you would hold responsible?
 

classic33

Legendary Member
If you banged your head and took two paracetamol for the pain, then thought 'I maybe should go to hospital' probably the first thing that will happen is that you will be offered two paracetamol by the triage nurse. They will ask you 'have you taken any pain killers in the last 4 hours?'

If you you say no, knowing that you have, take the extra paracetamol and you get poorly whose fault is that? Yours for lying or the nurse for administering?
Triage nurse wouldn't offer any medication. It might mean a longer wait for the patient, as it slows down the treatment, and could hide further damage.

Been there and never been asked that by any triage nurse.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
I rather think the correct administration of medication lies with the trained staff administering it, just like any other drug or medication given by a trained professional. Yes, there's a safety net in this case, the matter is simple enough to understand by the patient and a right thinking individual can raise a concern, but that depends on how clear the staff were about the to-be injected serum for the recipient.
(I'm agreeing with you, @dodgy.) A patient in the very capable hands of the men and women of the NHS (and fellow travellers, many volunteers - thanks) will mostly tend to compliance. Relying on the individual at the point of vaccination (as in 'little prick'):
1) to comprehend (not just hear) the name of the vaccine waiting in its syringe,
2) recognise the vaccine is not the one they had first time round,
3) to know/remember 'anything', even the make of vaccine they received first time,
4) and to have the chutzpah/bottle/nerve to speak out /query in an obsequious vaccination centre (large or small) environment where efficiency (ie throughput) is the pervasive air
- is a weak control measure. The system does not rely on this. I have no doubt that CycleChatters are outliers in the spectrum I've implied.
There is an excellent NHS national protocol and the gatekeeper(s) for joining the queue must be medical professionals (many others are not).
As I tried to imply, the chances of getting this right all but 1 in 13 million vaccinations is vanishly small (and @Craig the cyclist has confirmed that - I would be surprised if the figure is less than 100). Added to that yet mitigating the risk, the hazard of an individual receiving a different make of vaccine for their second dose is low - there is no evidence that (safety/efficacy) is either better or worse.
The direction (from FAQs) remains that:
Q: Can different vaccines be used for first and second doses?
A: The Green Book states that the same vaccine used for the first dose must be used for the second, except in very exceptional circumstances.
Q: Should we still give people who are under 30 their second dose of AstraZeneca?
A: As per JCVI advice for all those in cohorts 1-9 who have received a first dose of AstraZeneca and are due to receive their second dose, appointments should continue unless AstraZeneca is contraindicated.
A: (GB) Individuals who have received a first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine should complete the course with the same vaccine, with the exception of those who experience an episode of thrombosis combined with thrombocytopaenia (see contraindications and precautions).
 
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Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
So, just to get this straight, is the opinion on here that health professionals should not rely on the patient to know about their treatment, and they should be in total control of the whole process to ensure no cock-ups?
 
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