COVID Vaccine !

[kingrollo]

I still have contacts in the dibble, somemof them quite senior. They in turn get their info direct from the Home Office, without the distortion or pollution of press or pundits.

Word is 6 are under development, and 4 show promise. However, they say best case scenario would be February, an a lot of things have to go right, a lot of planets have to line up the make that happen, a lot of luck imvolved.

That leaves overseas sources, which may or may not manage it quicker. Always assuming it turns out to be possible at all. My guess is there's an evens chance it'll never be viable - if it were that easy to immunise against viral infections there would have been an aids vaccine decades ago.

Key difference though is that AIDs is terminal - COVID isn't (mostly). I've heard that makes a vaccine much more feasible.

 

[kingrollo]

Challenge trial - whereby a small number of people are deliberately infected with the virus to start in Jan

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-to-infect-young-volunteers-to-hasten-vaccine

Would they do this if they knew a vaccine was close ?

 

[srw]

Would they do this if they knew a vaccine was close

They're doing it because they believe a reliable vaccine is close. I think you've missed out some crucial words.

 

[kingrollo]

They're doing it because they believe a reliable vaccine is close. I think you've missed out some crucial words.

Obviously I have ...and they are still missing.....enlighten me ?

Why would you undertake high risk trials if a reliable vaccine is close ?

 

[winjim]

Obviously I have ...and they are still missing.....enlighten me ?

Why would you undertake high risk trials if a reliable vaccine is close ?

$$$

 

[Beebo]

We have some clear evidence that natural immunity isn’t permanent. And it’s cycling related! Giro Rider tests positive for the second time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/54612253
Does this mean we will need an annual vacation like the current flu.

 

[srw]

Obviously I have ...and they are still missing.....enlighten me ?

Why would you undertake high risk trials if a reliable vaccine is close ?

I believed you meant "they" the researchers, who are undertaking the trial in order to test what they believe to be a reliable vaccine. It sounds as if you meant "they" the trial participants, who will have various motivations, from altruism to money to wanting to be first in line to get a plausible vaccine and get their lives back.

It would be unethical to infect healthy volunteers without a very good prospect of the vaccine protecting them.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

would be unethical to infect healthy volunteers without a very good prospect of the vaccine protecting them

According to Nature, the first part of such trials would be to find what an infectious dose of virus would be in the absence of a vaccine.

Ergo there would be zero prospect of protection for early cohorts.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02821-4

 

[bitsandbobs]

Obviously I have ...and they are still missing.....enlighten me ?

Why would you undertake high risk trials if a reliable vaccine is close ?

A few years ago, a first in human clinical trial was carried out in the UK. A number of subjects ended up in intensive care within a matter of hours with catastrophic organ failure. There was quite some publicity about it at the time and the amounts subjects were paid for enrollment in the trial got some attention. I was told that enrollments in clinical trials in the UK went up quite noticeably at the time! (I've never checked to see if it's true, btw)

 

[matticus]

We have some clear evidence that natural immunity isn’t permanent. And it’s cycling related! Giro Rider tests positive for the second time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/54612253
Does this mean we will need an annual vacation like the current flu.

That is only clear evidence of two positive tests.

But I do agree that we need annual vacations!

 

[Hover Fly]

A few years ago, a first in human clinical trial was carried out in the UK. A number of subjects ended up in intensive care within a matter of hours with catastrophic organ failure. There was quite some publicity about it at the time and the amounts subjects were paid for enrollment in the trial got some attention. I was told that enrollments in clinical trials in the UK went up quite noticeably at the time! (I've never checked to see if it's true, btw)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theralizumab

 

[lazybloke]

A few years ago, a first in human clinical trial was carried out in the UK. A number of subjects ended up in intensive care within a matter of hours with catastrophic organ failure. There was quite some publicity about it at the time and the amounts subjects were paid for enrollment in the trial got some attention. I was told that enrollments in clinical trials in the UK went up quite noticeably at the time! (I've never checked to see if it's true, btw)

That trial is often mentioned in conversations of who will be first in the queue for vaccines. The conversation usually goes "who wants to be a guinea pig?" and "I'd rather not be an early adopter".

I usually point out the contradiction, if those same people are happy to have a new flu jab every year. Indeed the short period of time availalle for the development and testing of flu jabs suggests to me that novel vaccines are a safer branch of the pharmaceutical industry than novel medications.

However I'm speaking from a position of ignorance!

 

[roubaixtuesday]

That trial is often mentioned in conversations of who will be first in the queue for vaccines. The conversation usually goes "who wants to be a guinea pig?" and "I'd rather not be an early adopter".

I usually point out the contradiction, if those same people are happy to have a new flu jab every year. Indeed the short period of time availalle for the development and testing of flu jabs suggests to me that novel vaccines are a safer branch of the pharmaceutical industry than novel medications.

However I'm speaking from a position of ignorance!

All medical interventions, pharmaceutical or otherwise, carry risks as well as benefits.

Note that the trial referenced above was part of the procedure for ensuring safety; these were the very first people ever dosed.

Covid vaccine trials, on the other hand, will have dosed tens of thousands of subjects before anyone in the general public is dosed, and most are developed using "platform" technology, so many more again have been dosed with similar agents.

The benefit is *very* high - ending a global pandemic.

But there will always be a risk, it cannot be eliminated.

 

[kingrollo]

A Cheery article.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/21/covid-vaccine-immunisation-protection

 

[winjim]

That trial is often mentioned in conversations of who will be first in the queue for vaccines. The conversation usually goes "who wants to be a guinea pig?" and "I'd rather not be an early adopter".

I appear to still be alive if that's any succour. But I'm part of the trial which is a different thing to being 'first in the queue' for routine vaccination which takes place after the trial has been concluded. Which is kind of the point of having a trial.