Covid vaccine.

[roubaixtuesday]

Is it April 1st?

If you've got a point, make it.

 

[Milkfloat]

I’m happy for people to take the vaccine but I don’t want it. I’m still branded an anti vaxer.

You are.

 

[classic33]

And what vaccine did she have?

Check your answer, then you'll have the answer.

 

[lazybloke]

Is it April 1st?

Well you'd have to be a fool to turn down a vaccine (unless you had a very good reason, eg a medical reason).


I could point to the estimated 1% fatality rate of Covid19, which rises to double digits to the elderly. I could point to so many who have died (at young ages) due to the complications of Covid & various comorbidities. I could give a reminder about about scarring of internal organs, "Long Covid" and the potential ongoing impact on health & lifestyle.

Tempting though it is to declare "good riddance" to those who are stupid enough to refuse protection against the above, my concern is the danger to the rest of society. The benefit of vaccination programmes is not just from protecting individuals but also from achieving herd immunity; every idiotic refusal is a direct threat to the good of wider society, and especially to those in the at-risk groups.

 

[dodgy]

I don't come on this forum as much as I once did, but every time i come here there's some nutjob going on about vague conspiracy theories, or harbouring fringe racist viewpoints. Definitely in the minority, but they're here. I won't even mention b****t.

 

[winjim]

I hardly think that profiteering pharmaceutical companies are a 'vague conspiracy'. However it seems to be the case that AstraZeneca are developing their vaccine as a non-profit, at least for the duration of the pandemic. Declaring the pandemic over remains their prerogative though, and it could be as early as next July if the FT have read the small print properly.

All this vaccine stuff is still early days and it all needs to be properly reviewed. Remember how Pfizer said theirs was 90% effective? Then Moderna came out and said theirs was 95%? Then all of a sudden Pfizer said theirs was >95%? Big pharma is absolutely notorious for their shenanigans. That doesn't mean I think that the vaccines aren't safe or aren't effective, my participation in the trial should convince you of that, but we need proper open, honest and independent review of any and all claims that the companies are making.

Everybody has the right to decline medical intervention and not everybody who does is a conspiracy theorist anti-vaxx lunatic nutjob. Some are, but not all of them.

 

[Drago]

Everybody has the right to decline medical intervention...

At least until a court rules that they must.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I’ve got a bike bike event next year so I’ve been moved up the vaccine priority list.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Everybody has the right to decline medical intervention and not everybody who does is a conspiracy theorist anti-vaxx lunatic nutjob. Some are, but not all of them.

I agree with that.

Equally, I think wider society is entitled to protection from the deliberately unvaccinated in a pandemic.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

I agree with that.

Equally, I think wider society is entitled to protection from the deliberately unvaccinated in a pandemic.

But currently only the companies who are going to profit the most from it are the ones making all the claims, are you old enough to remember thalidomide?

I hope for the world they are correct & there are no long lasting effects, but we are in the realms of profit & share price, all claims need to be independently verified, even if that involves a delay.

It's not a conspiracy theory it's a mistrust of large organisations especially American ones, whose real moral code is lower than a snakes belly when it comes to making profit at the expense of the public, otherwise why would they fight so hard to hang on to patents.

 

[vickster]

But currently only the companies who are going to profit the most from it are the ones making all the claims, are you old enough to remember thalidomide?

I hope for the world they are correct & there are no long lasting effects, but we are in the realms of profit & share price, all claims need to be independently verified, even if that involves a delay.

It's not a conspiracy theory it's a mistrust of large organisations especially American ones, whose real moral code is lower than a snakes belly when it comes to making profit at the expense of the public, otherwise why would they fight so hard to hang on to patents.

There is independent verification of claims, this has been covered before and you said you didn't know much about the Clinical Trial and reporting process? That's what the regulatory authorities do day in day out (both before and after a product is available)

The whole system of testing, reporting, post marketing surveillance was completely overhauled following thalidomde (~50-60 years ago). I myself have to do multiple training courses around adverse event reporting every year, there are audits of pharma companies and of any organisation that might hear of AEs through other activities (in my case Market Research). There's plenty of reading you can do if you're interested

They hang on hard to patents, not only to make money for their shareholders but also because that profit actually allows them to undertake further R&D into new treatments (something like 90% + of NCEs never make it out of the labs or past early phase trials so there is a lot of investment that comes to nought). If all R&D was publicly funded, there'd be nothing new (even Bill Gates' pockets aren't that deep).

If you don't want the vaccine (or any medical treatment ever) because you don't like Pharma, then don't have it Hopefully you'll never get sick

 

[roubaixtuesday]

But currently only the companies who are going to profit the most from it are the ones making all the claims, are you old enough to remember thalidomide?

Happily, nobody will be dosed on the basis of a company press release.

Note that it is illegal for these companies to misrepresent their data in a press release (from a financial perspective, not medical).

I hope for the world they are correct & there are no long lasting effects, but we are in the realms of profit & share price, all claims need to be independently verified, even if that involves a delay.

I agree. So do the companies. So does the government. I'm not sure what point you're making.

It's not a conspiracy theory it's a mistrust of large organisations especially American ones, whose real moral code is lower than a snakes belly when it comes to making profit at the expense of the public, otherwise why would they fight so hard to hang on to patents.

Well, there are certainly issues with the pharma business model. But without a conspiracy to hide or change data I don't see what bearing it has here. If the vaccine is effective, it's effective. The adverse events reported reflect the safety profile.

Please can you explain your previous comment about April 1st? I'm none the wiser as to what you meant.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Please can you explain your previous comment about April 1st? I'm none the wiser as to what you meant.

I am a half empty type of person, I don't ever remember ever seeing a half full glass, you appear to be lapping up the information being offered by the Pharmaceutical companies as they can do no wrong & they are the coming Messiah, I don't share your views, they are not in this for the good of the world. I really really do hope they/you are right, but what if you are wrong & they have got it wrong?

My main suspicion is the speed in which this has been developed & that vital corners have not been cut, to be the first to get there, is it not strange how suddenly one is announced, then days later another, then days later yet another.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I am a half empty type of person, I don't ever remember ever seeing a half full glass, you appear to be lapping up the information being offered by the Pharmaceutical companies as they can do no wrong & they are the coming Messiah, I don't share your views, they are not in this for the good of the world. I really really do hope they/you are right, but what if you are wrong & they have got it wrong?

My main suspicion is the speed in which this has been developed & that vital corners have not been cut, to be the first to get there, is it not strange how suddenly one is announced, then days later another, then days later yet another.

I've no idea what any of that has to do with April 1st. Please help.

I'm not "lapping up" anything - I've carefully read what has been announced.

I have ascribed no messianic properties to any person or entity.

I understand exactly this: that the data sounded clearly shows that the vaccines developed have the potential to end this pandemic.

Finally, this is a very strange comment:
"is it not strange how suddenly one is announced, then days later another, then days later yet another"
It's not strange at all. All the trials were announced months before. The timescales for all of them were well known. Please can you, rather than insinuating something nefarious, be clear about what you believe is strange about this?

 

[vickster]

I am a half empty type of person, I don't ever remember ever seeing a half full glass,

Just because you're an old misery guts doesn't mean the vaccine won't work