Cycling more expensive per mile than driving?

[Andy in Germany]

Ive no idea how much modern high tech bikes are to run - but I find riding an old school steel frame, hub gear (or SS/FW) bike is way cheaper than a car. That includes £35 a year for 3rd part indemnity and theft / damage insurance.

Exactly. Our "family car" is an old school steel framed Bakfiets. It cost 2000€ back in 2009, which caused much shaking of heads and tutting from car owning locals.

17 years later it is still running, still looks fairly respectable, and I would generously estimate I spent about 1000€ on things like tyres and other parts. Thankfully it also has no motor needing "updates" and expensive maintenance.

Which reminds me, it needs new handlebars, oh, the expense...

 

[Andy in Germany]

Here are my sums. Each of these is a statement from my original post. Hence my suggestion that you read it more carefully. Others have managed to understand. Let me guide you, step by step, towards comprehension.

"So I thought "does anybody charge for rewaxing chains"."

"It turns out people do charge."

"What I was very surprised at was the cost. £30/40 ish. "

"For a cyclist who stays out of the rain, and mainly rides on clean tarmac, the rewaxing interval is suggested at about 300 miles."

"That works out at 10p a mile. "

Does that make sense? At all? Can you see that if one is charged £30 to have your chain waxed, and you get it done every 300 miles that works out at 10p a mile? £30 divided by 300 miles is 10p per mile.

30/300 = 0.1 GBP. A tenth of a pound is 10 pence.

Waxing the chain isn't mandatory.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Considering that people will commonly already have a car on the drive, and consider buying a bike to use for some of their travel if and when it's convenient, I don't think it's that unreasonable to compare the marginal cost of car miles against the total cost of cycling.

But those aren't the same thing. "People commonly already have a car on the drive" yes, but people also commonly also already eat food. I'm not sure if that's a very strong argument.

Thankfully I've never owned a car, so I can't make a direct comparison. I can say that my transport costs for the month generally hover between the 70-100€ mark, mostly because that's a bit more than the extremely useful Deutschland Ticket costs by direct debit.

 

[Punkawallah]

But those aren't the same thing. "People commonly already have a car on the drive" yes, but people also commonly also already eat food. I'm not sure if that's a very strong argument.

Thankfully I've never owned a car, so I can't make a direct comparison. I can say that my transport costs for the month generally hover between the 70-100€ mark, mostly because that's a bit more than the extremely useful Deutschland Ticket costs by direct debit.

Apparently some 22% of the eligible UK population do not own a car.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Apparently some 22% of the eligible UK population do not own a car.

That's far higher than I'd have thought.

I wondered how high this percentage is in Germany, but then I realised I'd have to dig through lots of German statistics and lost interest. Sorry.

 

[Andy in Germany]

The cost of cycling is proportional to the number of pubs on your route.

You have nailed it and shined perspective on this clickbait titled thread.
The cost of driving is far less than cycling because you can't (shouldn't) drink at any of the "pubs on your route".
Riding (with others or meeting there) to a pub every Wednesday costs (average per week) £15 (2-3 pints of beer, East Devon prices): way more than the weekly cost of my cycling, averaging 150km a week.
Consumables (9sp), which do not include parafinalia, are oil (£1), chains £60, cassette (£30), tyres (£105), brake pads (£25),
Annuals might be mudguards (?every 2), a rim, bar tape, cables, clothing.
All up, well below my typical expenditure on alcohol per year.

This is encouraging: I don't drive, don't drink, and I'm incredibly antisocial; by this reckoning I should be a millionaire by the time I retire.

Also, @Ajax Bay What do you do to your mudguards?

 

[All uphill]

Exactly. Our "family car" is an old school steel framed Bakfiets. It cost 2000€ back in 2009, which caused much shaking of heads and tutting from car owning locals.

17 years later it is still running, still looks fairly respectable, and I would generously estimate I spent about 1000€ on things like tyres and other parts. Thankfully it also has no motor needing "updates" and expensive maintenance.

Which reminds me, it needs new handlebars, oh, the expense...

I refuse to believe that 2009 is 17 years ago. Just not possible.

 

[Punkawallah]

That's far higher than I'd have thought.

I wondered how high this percentage is in Germany, but then I realised I'd have to dig through lots of German statistics and lost interest. Sorry.

Apparently 23-30% of German households do not own a car - according to AI. About the same figure for Britain.

 

[Ajax Bay]

I don't drive, don't drink, and I'm incredibly antisocial; by this reckoning I should be a millionaire by the time I retire.
Also, @Ajax Bay What do you do to your mudguards?

As I followed your 'journey' (above) I was going to ask how many litres of beer you consumed - to bring this thread back on track. No need!
You ask about my mudguards! What about your handlebars?
My mudguards are SKS chromoplastic (35mm over 28s). (I appreciate you will have heavy steel jobs which can be recycled when you die.) I think expecting mine to last 20,000km (for rudimentary budgeting) is fair; hope for 3 years, plan for 2. The seatstay bridge section wears as does the end by the chainstay bridge. Eventually both fracture. Most recently at the front, the pop rivets securing the tab to the fork crown have loosened. Another set is waiting to go on.
But (waaay off topic) I am replacing the frame before the new guards, which has done me over 100,000km (bought 16 years old, in 2015 for an end-to-end).

This arrives next week, Royal Mail willing:

 

[Andy in Germany]

I appreciate you will have heavy steel jobs which can be recycled when you die.)

Second hand heavy steel jobs, scavenged off a scrap bike... Actually they're going a bit rusty, so I have considered spending money on a new pair.

I must confess, I destroyed plastic mudguards within weeks, I have no idea why: I remember having to ride to an interview with one rear mudguard gaffer taped to the frame.

That Dawes is lovely: t's exactly the sort of frame I'm looking for, but I can't find a lugged frame here with vertical dropouts.

 

[SuperGalactian]

I've heard it said that you can tell which group is dominant in a western country, by looking at who gets the most subsidies and least consequences.

Well yes, but it wouldn’t be meaningful to compare - say - the Netherlands with the UK (or especially Scotland), because of the differences in terrain and (for rural areas) in distribution of amenities. There’s also the unavoidable legacy of history: in the UK, the public transport system (which if good should encourage people not to own cars) has been heavily eroded by previous governments for ideological reasons.

 

[All uphill]

Well yes, but it wouldn’t be meaningful to compare - say - the Netherlands with the UK (or especially Scotland), because of the differences in terrain and (for rural areas) in distribution of amenities. There’s also the unavoidable legacy of history: in the UK, the public transport system (which if good should encourage people not to own cars) has been heavily eroded by previous governments for ideological reasons.

You all probably get bored with me saying it, but...

The Netherlands can be very, very windy, which is worse, imo, than hills.

Anyway ebikes have made hills and headwinds disappear, haven't they?

Point taken about distances in Scotland.

 

[PedallingNowhereSlowly]

Well yes, but it wouldn’t be meaningful to compare - say - the Netherlands with the UK (or especially Scotland), because of the differences in terrain and (for rural areas) in distribution of amenities. There’s also the unavoidable legacy of history: in the UK, the public transport system (which if good should encourage people not to own cars) has been heavily eroded by previous governments for ideological reasons.

The distribution of amenities, and I would add centralisation of services, is something that - within reason - the heavy reliance on cars has enabled.

 

[scotsbikester]

How long does it take to re-wax a chain, an hour with removal and refitting?

You didn't reply saying how long it takes you to re-wax a chain, so I'll assume you don't wax your chain, and your "hour" was a guess.

Having done it today, for the first time, I can tell you it is way way less than an hour. I can't give you a time in minutes, because as well as waxing the chain, I was cleaning the rest of the drive-train in preparation for the waxing, and a couple of other things. I shouldn't have to do that again.

I spent a little while first preparing the chain holder thing, making sure it would fit in the pot, and actually practising with an old chain. A "dry run" if you like.

But if you have everything set up and in place, the routine is this:

1. Turn slow cooker on.
1a. Go and do something else for at least an hour
2. Take chain off bike. 1 minute.
3. Thread chain onto swisher (coat hanger, mudguard stay, whatever). 1 minute max
4. Lower chain into wax. 5 seconds
4a. Go and do something else for 10 minutes.
5. Swish chain about. 30 seconds.
6. Lift chain out of wax, hang to cool. 10 seconds.
6a. Go and do something else for a few minutes (though it cooled way faster than I imagined)
7. Break up chain by hand and/or over something - a length of broom handle in the jaws of my bike stand, in my case. 2 minutes max.
8. Fit chain back on bike. 1 minute.

Even some of those times are too generous. And if you have a couple of tricks, they become faster. I use a short length of coat hanger bent into a very wide but short "U" to hold the chain so I'm not pulling against the derailleur spring.

But time spent on it (as opposed to time from start to finish) was no more than five or six minutes. I was amazed how quickly it went, considering it's my first time. The preparation and practice helped, obviously.

If that was part of a business, where the "waxing station" was all set up and ready there is no way it would take an hour of somebody's time.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't earn money if they have a skill, and I fully agree with everything you said in your piece. What I am disputing, is that it would take anywhere near an hour.

 

[SuperGalactian]

Please report back how you get on with wax, if that was your first time. I tried it once, seemed great at first, but chain was very soon rusty. I gave it up in favour of wet lube.