Cycling Snobs

[Arch]

Wow, I'd melt if I wore all that.

If it is below 4C I will wear an ordinary pair of trousers one pair of socks, short sleeved base layer, sweatshirt, cycling jacket, fleece hat and a pair of gloves. Even then I will often arrive at work sweating if it is above freezing.

I do tend to generate a lot of heat when I cycle (not necessarily because I am pushing hard).

Bear in mind that my average speed on the trike is about 5-6 miles an hour, and it's heavy, so I tend not to be spinning along, plus I'm on and off it all the time picking up boxes. If it's raining, it gets through, even in waterproofs...

We still get cold fingers, mainly due to having wet hands... Sometimes I do whip my hat off to let some heat out.

The downside is I can't wear shorts in summer, you really want some leg protection from the box-slop.

I started in November, so I've got the coldest bit of the year out of the way, I'll gradually shed what layers I can...

 

[chap]

It's your choice to wear lycra or not & either camp has no real justification for looking down on the other camp, but I also find that a lot of people who are into cycling in a big way but don't wear lycra see it at some kind of status symbol that they're not, this in it's own way is snobbery.

I personally find it interesting that everyone I know who rides a reasonable distance in non-lycra clothes always complains about the bad weather & being cold, getting wet etc. not only that but they also have to change into their work clothes anyway once they reach their destination anyway. Where as everyone I know who doesn't wear 'sensible clothes', ie lycra & other cycling specific clothing, tends to say there's no real problem with it being wet, cold or well much else unless they miss-judge the weather. So I would argue in lycra being the right temp, comfortable & able to ride faster for the same effort level that I'm in the sensible cloths & those in their civvies are the ones who are dressed inappropriately for their task.

Before this descends into some banal online offensive, I urge you to read my post again, in particular the opening paragraph, then practise your skills of 'Close/Interpretive Reading' (or so they called it when I was a lad.)

For my situation, 'Civvies' are very appropriate for the task, sometimes I wish to change, other times it is not necessary. If I wore Lycra then apart from slapping myself whenever I passed a reflective surface, I would need to change every time I reached my destination, and quite possibly shield my face. One needn't wear Lycra to get from A to B, they need only judge the weather, the proposed distance, then the appropriateness of changing facilities available at their destination.

If the advantage you are claiming is that Lycra is the wonderkid of clothing technology - given that it can be used in all weathers - then fair enough, although personally I like to dress appropriately for the elements. However, it would seem that one can still misjudge the weather whilst clad in Lycra.

There are plenty of good quality alternatives to Lycra, and in many cases people probably overdress for a longer ride, the trick is to remember that you can get away with less. For shorter trips say 5 miles and under, proper clothing is more than enough. Then there is the point that on a bike the air is your natural air-conditioner, if you are getting too hot then slow down, if you are pushed for time then count it as a lesson towards better judgement in the future.

For me, Merino wool is far better than Lycra, and the latter is dwarfed by Tweed. A good fitting woollen suit can get one far, and if taken to a tailor / made to measure, then can be made or adjusted for long-term cycling. Then there are plenty of cycle clothes which one can wear normally without coming across as some fetishist.

I for one, like to view my bicycle as a tool for the given purpose, that is why it ought to be comfortable, have a decent range, and a detachable basket for when I go shopping, go to the recycling centre, or make / pick up a delivery. I cycle about 5 - 30 miles in general, and see no need for Lycra.

 

[thegrumpybiker]

Before this descends into some banal online offensive, I urge you to read my post again, in particular the opening paragraph, then practise your skills of 'Close/Interpretive Reading' (or so they called it when I was a lad.)

For my situation, 'Civvies' are very appropriate for the task, sometimes I wish to change, other times it is not necessary. If I wore Lycra then apart from slapping myself whenever I passed a reflective surface, I would need to change every time I reached my destination, and quite possibly shield my face. One needn't wear Lycra to get from A to B, they need only judge the weather, the proposed distance, then the appropriateness of changing facilities available at their destination.

If the advantage you are claiming is that Lycra is the wonderkid of clothing technology - given that it can be used in all weathers - then fair enough, although personally I like to dress appropriately for the elements. However, it would seem that one can still misjudge the weather whilst clad in Lycra.

There are plenty of good quality alternatives to Lycra, and in many cases people probably overdress for a longer ride, the trick is to remember that you can get away with less. For shorter trips say 5 miles and under, proper clothing is more than enough. Then there is the point that on a bike the air is your natural air-conditioner, if you are getting too hot then slow down, if you are pushed for time then count it as a lesson towards better judgement in the future.

For me, Merino wool is far better than Lycra, and the latter is dwarfed by Tweed. A good fitting woollen suit can get one far, and if taken to a tailor / made to measure, then can be made or adjusted for long-term cycling. Then there are plenty of cycle clothes which one can wear normally without coming across as some fetishist.

I for one, like to view my bicycle as a tool for the given purpose, that is why it ought to be comfortable, have a decent range, and a detachable basket for when I go shopping, go to the recycling centre, or make / pick up a delivery. I cycle about 5 - 30 miles in general, and see no need for Lycra.

I'm personally not keen on the lycra look, mainly because most of the tops make Fatboy Slim's Hawaiian shirts look dowdy and secondly, well, it just looks a bit whack. I've no doubt it's an effective material in most conditions and when pushing hard. Like Chap I'm sold on merino wool. May have to look into the tweed option though, sounds classy.
There's a relatively new (I think) bike clothing company called B-spoke that makes "civvy" styled bikewear, looks quite nice some of it too. So if you want to look a bit smart after pedalling to your destination it may be the look to go for.

 

[GrasB]

Sub-5 mile rides typically I have normal clothes with some old cycling shorts underneath because my saddles are to hard if I don't have any padding. I also may ride with lightweight slightly baggy shorts & a t-shirt in a bag, this means I can just throw on the t-shirt & have the possibility of a layered look going on if I have a long-sleeved base layer which no one really notices these days. Once above 10 miles though the lycra comes out because at around 35min travelling time I want wicking, non-flappy material & light weight without getting cold or getting way to hot.

There is also a dependency on effort, most of the time I'm pushing out the thick end of 200w power sustained that means I will overheat very easily if I'm not in appropriate clothing. Say if I was willing to almost half my average speed I could make do with normal clothes, however that would mean on most journeys it would take longer in total time, it takes about 10-15 min to change max (if required, a lot of the time just pulling out a t-shirt is enough) but on any half decent length of ride the time I lose by going slowly totally swamps the time it takes to change!

If that lot works for you fine, it's just in my experience & observation using 'normal' alternatives often leaves people needing to be a much more careful judge of the weather & more protective of their clothing or simply take far longer to get from A to B & be presentable. Example; I think it was thursday I arrived at work with all my clothes soaking wet, I hadn't actually noticed that I was soaked to the skin because the clothes had worked as intended I was warm & after hanging the clothes up in a moderately warm room for the day they were nice n' dry for my trip home. Compare this to a colleague who got caught in the same early morning heavy shower, he had a fairly water proof jacket with a jumper underneath & normal trousers. He too had to change into different clothes, however he ended up cycling home is his work shirt & trousers because his clothes hadn't dried.

 

[brokenbetty]

There's a relatively new (I think) bike clothing company called B-spoke that makes "civvy" styled bikewear, looks quite nice some of it too.

OOoooo - I hadn't seen them before! THanks for the link

 

[chap]

Sub-5 mile rides typically I have normal clothes with some old cycling shorts underneath because my saddles are to hard if I don't have any padding. I also may ride with lightweight slightly baggy shorts & a t-shirt in a bag, this means I can just throw on the t-shirt & have the possibility of a layered look going on if I have a long-sleeved base layer which no one really notices these days. Once above 10 miles though the lycra comes out because at around 35min travelling time I want wicking, non-flappy material & light weight without getting cold or getting way to hot.

There is also a dependency on effort, most of the time I'm pushing out the thick end of 200w power sustained that means I will overheat very easily if I'm not in appropriate clothing. Say if I was willing to almost half my average speed I could make do with normal clothes, however that would mean on most journeys it would take longer in total time, it takes about 10-15 min to change max (if required, a lot of the time just pulling out a t-shirt is enough) but on any half decent length of ride the time I lose by going slowly totally swamps the time it takes to change!

If that lot works for you fine, it's just in my experience & observation using 'normal' alternatives often leaves people needing to be a much more careful judge of the weather & more protective of their clothing or simply take far longer to get from A to B & be presentable. Example; I think it was thursday I arrived at work with all my clothes soaking wet, I hadn't actually noticed that I was soaked to the skin because the clothes had worked as intended I was warm & after hanging the clothes up in a moderately warm room for the day they were nice n' dry for my trip home. Compare this to a colleague who got caught in the same early morning heavy shower, he had a fairly water proof jacket with a jumper underneath & normal trousers. He too had to change into different clothes, however he ended up cycling home is his work shirt & trousers because his clothes hadn't dried.

The only poor sartorial decision I have made with regards to cycling and inclement weather was to wear denim jeans during an absolute down-pour.

Usually, if the heavens open, a light-weight jacket (small enough to carry in a saddle bag) will be more than enough - if one is not already wearing a jacket. I believe you can even buy some at Boots for under £10. Although Regatta might be the better option.

For 0 to 10 mile cycles, I wear my normal clothes. For intended 10 - 20 mile cycles, I'll probably switch the coat for a jacket. For 20 - 30 mile journeys, I'll favour the Merino wool, and will make certain that I have the water-proofs on standby.

Merino wool is very quick drying, versatile, and pleasant to wear. You can buy Merino wool products, which were not even intended for cycling.

In the end, if you wish to wear Lycra for your commute, fair play to you, I wouldn't but then we are different people. The focus of this thread was regarding those (usually from the Spandex-crew) who have the gaul to look down on other cyclists because the equipment they ride, or because they do not wish to look like a vegan participant in a BDSM session.

Live and let live

 

[Norm]

There is also a dependency on effort, most of the time I'm pushing out the thick end of 200w power sustained that means I will overheat very easily if I'm not in appropriate clothing.

Is there any correlation between someone who knows their power output and wearing lycra?

I don't think that halving the speed is required to move from the sweat zone to something more comfortable. I'm sorry that I don't know the watts I produce (I hope that alone doesn't preclude me from passing comment) but I find that dropping from, say, 18mph to 15mph is enough to shift from hard work to sustainable.

 

[potsy]

My current commuting get up
-1 pair wool walking socks
-padded undershorts
-ronhill bikesters
-merino base layer
-thin moisture wicking s/s shirt
-waterproof jacket
-buff
-aldi winter gloves
This has done me down to -2c,no lycra in site and I get ignored by 95% of other cyclists

 

[chap]

On a slightly tangential note, I always find it odd - if not rather ironic - that the Lycra-crew refer to their-selves as 'serious cyclists', whereas commuters, utility cyclists, etc are deemed as some sort of fashionista upstart.

I would regard Amsterdam a country of 'serious' cyclists, as opposed to say the USA or Canada, yet is it not these countries which produce the cycle greats?

 

[ttcycle]

On a slightly tangential note, I always find it odd - if not rather ironic - that the Lycra-crew refer to their-selves as 'serious cyclists', whereas commuters, utility cyclists, etc are deemed as some sort of fashionista upstart.

Chap this is rather presumptious?
Seems like another form of snobbery and stereotype.

 

[chap]

Chap this is rather presumptious?
Seems like another form of snobbery and stereotype.

So you would say that this is not the case, and that many racers adopt the whole egalitarian form of 'we're all in it together'. If so, it may be that I just have had unfortunate experiences with the unsavoury members of this clique, that and the OP plus many of the posters to this forum

Reverse snobbery, probably outnumbers the original cases - some say it's a reaction, others resentment. We all categorise, it's the means of our system of interaction categorisation, etc. The key is to be open to revision, and realise the universality of most systems. Thus, if I bore an actual hatred for those in Lycra, then that would be stupid, if I was to pull from my experience that many Lycra-clad commuters are generally not the most pleasant of people but this is not a definite, then that would be tending towards a more workable model.

This is why, the discussion need be about the obnoxious tikes, and also about the pliability and usefulness of the material in itself.

 

[Arch]

Just thinking aloud here....

To me, one sign of 'seriousness' in a cyclist* is the ownership of more than one bike. This is generally in order to have bikes suited to different uses. So it stands to reason that different uses probably involve different outfits. So any of us, wearing anything, could easily be in one of our alternative 'personalities'. Which makes the whole judgement thing doubly stupid, in any direction.

*Serious is an interesting term, most of my cycling friends are anything but serious, and some of them are downright comic!

 

[GrasB]

Let's turn this around a little... would you call a serious driver a (wo)man who only really drives the kids to school & goes to the shops by car or is the serious driver the one who's out doing motorsport/trackdays/driver training in the evening/weekends or taking days of work to do them?

Personally I'd see the people of Amsterdam (FYI it's a town not a country) & those who use their bikes for pure transport as utilitarian cyclists, just going about their business as people on a mode of transport. They're not serious cyclists they are regular utilitarian bike users & in all honesty there's nothing wrong with being that sort of person, these people shouldn't be looked down on because they're just getting on with their life using the bike as a tool for transportation.

 

[joebingo]

On a slightly tangential note, I always find it odd - if not rather ironic - that the Lycra-crew refer to their-selves as 'serious cyclists', whereas commuters, utility cyclists, etc are deemed as some sort of fashionista upstart.

No, I see myself as a serious cyclist because I cycle every day. Wearing Lycra is just an excuse to leave the house in my underwear.

 

[ttcycle]

To put it simply your 'categorisation' of lycra wearers as simply racers is narrow. This may be possibly down to your experiences but at the same time the generalisation is as poor as those 'lycra louts' who have a holier than though attitude. The topic of someone saying hello crops up all the time and I don't seem to be as bothered people who wave/don't wave.

People can be many things on a bike- it is not simply black and white. commuters and utlity cyclists may wear lycra for utility reasons and not be road racers. You equally get obnoxious people in none lycra. Lets think of what causes the obnoxiousness rather than simply labelling said cyclist with certain appearance as being snobbish. Yes, you may have a revisable, working model but your post is decisive and not inclusive and smacks of tribalism and reinforces stereotypes. People have differing ideas of function and utility of a bike. They even have different ideas of wearing lycra...how groundbreaking is that?

What is deemed pointless is that snobbishness in any form is limiting to others getting on a bike. It's not always about top end kit, it could easily be about the clique mentality of any group that wants a sense of belonging and exclusivity - that is not limited to lycra wearers.