Cyclist crushed by bus on Oxford Street

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StuartG

slower but further
Location
SE London
I agree with the comments we should not speculate on this case.

However it does concern me that we seldom learn the lessons of past fatalities and other recorded collisions. The police usually do a thorough job recording, analysing and reconstructing the event for the benefit of the coroner's court and any subsequent prosecution. But never AFAIK published so that we may learn directly from these tragedies. The lessons they can teach would have the added poignancy of the consequence.

Otherwise history is doomed to repeat itself.
 
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CopperBrompton

CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
When I was involved with the IAM, we had illustrated talks from police crash investigators, where they would bring along slides of accident scenes and ask us to speculate about how the crashes happened. They would then talk us through what the investigations revealed to have actually happened. The results were often very surprising indeed.

One lesson that stuck with me very clearly: eye witness testimony, while superficially compelling, is often wildly inaccurate. One of them talked about two experiments the police carried out as a result of being puzzled by the phenomenon of how ordinary members of the public could apparently just make stuff up that they hadn't actually seen yet were convinced they had.

The simplest one was to drive the same car past the same witness at the same point on the same road three times. The witness was asked to estimate the speed of the car. The experiment was run many times with a huge range of members of the public as witnesses. Typical speed estimates for the three runs were 25mph, 35mph and 50mph.

In fact, the speed of the car was exactly 30mph all three times. The difference was the car was in 4th gear for the first run, 3rd for the second and 2nd for the final one. People heard very different engine notes and extrapolated the speed from that, despite the fact that they had a clear view of the car as it passed them.

The second experiment was more elaborate. The Met has a mock town centre in its training centre at Hendon (used for riot training, etc). Members of the public were recruited to take part in what they thought was a questionnaire. They were taken in small groups from one building, along this mock street to another building. En-route, a woman pushed a pram onto a zebra crossing. A car clipped the pram then drove to the T-junction and turned right.

The public thought this was a real crash, and were taken immediately into separate rooms to give statements. Despite the fact that they were interviewed literally within three minutes of the incident, their statements were wildly variable. The colour of the car was black or red or white or silver. The car had one or two or three or four occupants. The driver was young or old, and was white, black or asian. The car hit the pram or the mother. The baby sometimes went flying out of the pram (which was in fact empty). The car was doing 40, 50, 60 or 70mph (it was doing 25mph). The car turned left, right or went straight on at the bottom of the road (the latter impossible as it was a T-junction).

Since then, I don't take much notice of press reports of witness statements.
 

Arch

Married to Night Train
Location
Salford, UK
Ben Lovejoy said:
Since then, I don't take much notice of press reports of witness statements.

That's all interesting stuff. Of course, shock probably plays a part - I know I've done something in shock that was quite illogical - I forgot completely that I had a mobile phone in my pocket and went to the landline to dial 999 - which put me on the other side of the room from the casualty, when I should have been right by them, following instructions (as it happened, it was too late anyway). It's not quite the same as perception, but it shows that in moments of high stress, the brain can make seemingly daft errors.
 
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CopperBrompton

CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
Yep, shock plus adding 2+2 to get 5, plus a natural human desire to be helpful in such a situation and trying to plug the gaps with plausible explanations.
 

Arch

Married to Night Train
Location
Salford, UK
Ben Lovejoy said:
Yep, shock plus adding 2+2 to get 5, plus a natural human desire to be helpful in such a situation and trying to plug the gaps with plausible explanations.

Yeah, brains don't like gaps do they - hence persistence of vision illusions and so on....
 
Ben Lovejoy said:
Nobody has changed your wording: you claimed that the same sort of thing happened as on London Bridge when we have absolutely no idea yet what happened in this case.

Edit: This post is also out of date now that hackbike has withdrawn his speculation

Are you really stupid?

I told you I was not speculating on the crash at all.

Just the fact the three bad accidents I have known about have involved buses.
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
Ben is quite good at those sorts of sums. ;)
 
Ben Lovejoy said:
"Same sort of thing" clearly says more than just "involving buses", but let's move on.

When I said "same sort of thing" it meant it was an accident involving a bus which was why I was using the London Bridge accident and Walthamstow McDonalds as examples of nasty accidents which could have had casualties more serious than what they were...At no time did I say what I thought it was apart from a bus being there.

I think you just want to pick up on this in whatever way you can to be so self righteous and perfect while deliberately missing the point when I actually try and plead my innocence.Ever thought of joining the force or are you there already?
 

Camgreen

Well-Known Member
User3143 said:
Generally speaking it's more to do with cyclists taking up cycling who have not really got a clue how to ride a bike in traffic and making stupid mistakes.

ref: BM's vid that he posted a couple of weeks ago.

Take your point generally, but the news item suggests that the bus may well have ploughed into cyclist and pedestrian here; an unfortunate case of wrong place/time as opposed to inexperience or road positioning, I suspect.
 
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