Die Diesel

[Tom B]

Now we are scapegoating diesel and promoting petrol use as the "good" option

Not good, just less bad.

I'm intrigued by this idea of fairness, how being unfair to people who bought diesels recently and in good faith is somehow more important than the 30,000 or more people snuffing it annually.

I actually have every sympathy with them, but their financial inconvenience is enormously outweighed by the death their emissions create.

If all cars switched to petrol tomorrow (rather than ceasing to exist) would the 30'000 be cured, would the death not occur? Would their condition improve to any noticeable or beneficial extent?

"I had financial incentives to buy a diesel, therefore it is fair and moral that I should receive further financial incentives to stop using it". Something about this argument just doesn't seem right to me

I don't agree with THAT argument but I don't think that diesel drivers should be now penalised at the pump.

If we are to accept the diesel is worse than petrol argument the incentive needs to be to reduce the purchase of new diesels and promote the purchase of new petrol vehicles. Perhaps some sorts of cost neutral cross tax/subsidy scheme.

If you expect to bananas, oranges, tea, coffee and God only knows how many other imported items sitting on the shelves the next time you visit Tesco's you may find difficulty in reducing shipping.

Quite. But there are some ways in which it could be reduced. I refuse to buy some supermarket veg... I love asparagus but think it's outrageous that it comes from Peru - especially in the middle of the UK season. New Zealand lamb and butter is another. Strawberries in December... We have forgotten about seasonality and expect everything all the time.

My view is that As a population we are going to travel less, as fuel becomes increasingly scarce and expensive the idea of nipping to Spain for a weekend, or even a summer break will cease to be affordable. I work with a handful of people who live in the Blackpool/Fleetwood area and commute daily to Manchester it doesn't make sense to me as the same job is available closer to home. Some others transferred their job when fuel hit £1.50/l.

 

[gavroche]

If you expect to bananas, oranges, tea, coffee and God only knows how many other imported items sitting on the shelves the next time you visit Tesco's you may find difficulty in reducing shipping.

I very rarely go to Tesco. I am more of a Asda, Morrison , Aldi, Lidle person.

 

[gavroche]

If we are so polluted nowadays , why is the human race living longer?

 

[Slick]

If we are so polluted nowadays , why is the human race living longer?

Gin.

 

[Tom B]

Gin.

That must be the tonic.

 

[tyred]

If we are so polluted nowadays , why is the human race living longer?

Probably because no longer have so many deaths from diseases which are (nowadays) easily curable to pull down the average life expectancy.

 

[Smokin Joe]

If we are so polluted nowadays , why is the human race living longer?

Better quality tobacco.

 

[boydj]

I am increasingly worried about air pollution, to the extent that I may stop commuting by bike...............................................

The fact is, though, that you are more exposed to pollution inside a car than outside. So driving rather than cycling does not reduce your exposure and you are also adding to the pollution.

 

[DRHysted]

Strangely my old 4x4 was probably the greenish vehicle I've had. The engine was so old it ran on 100% vegetable oil (except winter when it needed some diesel to get the engine started).
At the time I had to declare my usage to HMRC and send them a check every month to cover the fuel tax, then they produce the light user amount where you only had to pay tax if you used over 2500 litres a year.
My current engine will not run on veg, but (nearly) the only time I'm the sole occupant is when I'm doing the weekly shop (which is actually every 8 days because I work and 8 day week not 7).

 

[Milzy]

It's interesting that you cite cigarettes as an example - for despite all the harm they do, they government are quite happy to let you carry on smoking as long as you pay the tax. Same with alcohol. What is the cost to society of those two?

The reason that "nothing" is done is because there isn't an alternative. Petrol cars aren't massively better, buses and trucks all (pretty much) run on diesel to get goods to shops and for all the hype about electric cars they're still a decade or more from being a solution because there simply isn't the infrastructure there to support them. A few weeks ago, I was loaned an electric courtesy car while mine was in the garage for a service. It was excellent around town, had a range of 100 miles and I was very nearly converted. But the reality hit: there are nowhere near enough charging points - there are only two that I know of in the town I work in and they're both in a supermarket car park with a maximum parking time of two hours. I park on the street at home (terrace house), so I'd have to run an extension lead through the letter box and up the street on a night and hope that A) it reaches the car and B) no-one trips over the lead or unplugs it before it's charged.
And public transport is slow, unreliable, often overcrowded, inflexible and hideously expensive - I know because I've tried and using the bus / train more than doubles not only the time for our commute, but the cost too. We're in the ridiculous position that it's often cheaper locally to take a taxi than a bus, especially if there are two or more of you.

I'll admit, I've got a diesel car and I've got no intention of giving it up until someone can offer me an affordable and workable alternative. It's Euro V with a properly working DPF, it's got stop/start so around town if it's not moving it's not emitting, it's zero rated for VED, it's correctly maintained and, perhaps more importantly, it is used for commuting (most of which is on motorway or fast A roads so the engine is quickly up to temperature) and not much else. Most weekends it doesn't turn a wheel. The local shop is under 10 minutes walk away, a large 24 hour supermarket not much further so why use the car? That is how the problem needs to be tackled in the short term, a groundswell away from using the car for journeys of under a couple of miles.

Don't forget, it's only five years since diesel was pushing £1.50/litre and that didn't stop people buying diesel cars.

You've now made me feel at ease with my people carrier issue. It's not going to make my asthma any worse. The issue we have in our local city is in the winter time so many people are burning all kinds of crap in their wood burners for free heat. It's totally unregulated pollution. The air quality is poor because they won't keep vehicles out of city centres. We often have almost pure grid locks Monday to Friday and still very busy all weekend.

 

[Slick]

You've now made me feel at ease with my people carrier issue. It's not going to make my asthma any worse. The issue we have in our local city is in the winter time so many people are burning all kinds of crap in their wood burners for free heat. It's totally unregulated pollution. The air quality is poor because they won't keep vehicles out of city centres. We often have almost pure grid locks Monday to Friday and still very busy all weekend.

It's the same everywhere as far as I can see. Also oil fired central heating systems run off the same polluting fuel. Obviously two wrongs don't make a right but the answer is not going to be a ban without first having an affordable alternative to all users in all its forms.

 

[nickr]

It's the same everywhere as far as I can see. Also oil fired central heating systems run off the same polluting fuel. Obviously two wrongs don't make a right but the answer is not going to be a ban without first having an affordable alternative to all users in all its forms.

No one is talking about a ban. The problem is most acute in cities where very few people use oil fired central heating. We have petrol as an alternative. There is no reason (other than an election) not to put a tariff on all new diesel cars and to give warning that in say a couple of years there will be increases in excise duty for all diesel cars and a fuel tax escalator.

Riding a bike on busy roads is dangerous enough, but now we should also worry about the carcinogenic effects of diesel fumes too.

 

[Markymark]

London is looking likely to get some sort of diesel ban which is 2 fold good news. First is fewer diesel cars. Second is keeping the "waaaasy, its nat fair" brigade away from me.

 

[Slick]

No one is talking about a ban. The problem is most acute in cities where very few people use oil fired central heating. We have petrol as an alternative. There is no reason (other than an election) not to put a tariff on all new diesel cars and to give warning that in say a couple of years there will be increases in excise duty for all diesel cars and a fuel tax escalator.

Riding a bike on busy roads is dangerous enough, but now we should also worry about the carcinogenic effects of diesel fumes too.

Actually, there are some people talking about a ban.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38170794

I didn't realise that very few people in cities don't use oil fired central heating.

 

[GuyBoden]

Not true, not all diesel cars are immediately compatible with biodisels, some do require a 50% blend with regular diesel too.

While the vast majority are compatible, it's not ANY, and as such any advice such as yours, should be followed with a reminder to check their specific vehicle is ok with it first.

Quote from: http://fuller-fuel.co.uk/product/biodiesel
"Our B100 BioDiesel comes straight from the pump and is mixed to the highest standard. BioDiesel can be used in any diesel engine with no need for any modifications. BioDiesel is available in all of our branches and can also be ordered for delivery via the ‘Delivery’ option on the main menu."