Do I need a new bike? Loud thinking: gravel vs touring?

[Iorek]

Hello,
I am a commuter more than a cyclist. 90% of my riding is a 22km round trip commute or/near main road, which I do pretty much all year long, no matter the weather (annual mileage is about 3000 km). I live in West Yorkshire, which means that the weather is often crap and everywhere is uphill. The other 10% are good weather, week-long trips in Europe, often with kids, always in full pannier heavy mode, plus occasional rides around home (maximum day trips, almost no overnighters). I love this 10% very much and most of my free time is spent daydreaming about where to go and how to ride.

For the last 4 years, I've ridden a custom 2020 Genesis TdF 20 M with Denham bars, which my LBS built for me from a frameset. I am a single bike person, so my TdF was purchased as an everything machine - go to York for a day or to Kyrgystan for a month. Even though the latter is pretty much not going to happen, the bike is inspirational (just like wearing an expedition rain jacket on a walk to town). It just makes me feel good to know that it can handle everything I am realistically going to throw at it.

Recently, I started to wonder whether I should use my bike to work scheme to get a new bike. The TdF now looks a bit rusty and tired, and this gives me an excuse to reconsider the type of bike given the actual (good surface commuting and day trips) vs inspirational (a month in Kyrgystan) use and/or to update the bike with more modern components (electronic group sets? also possibility of fitting Rohloff would be nice) or materials (steel is indeed real, but carbon is now relatively affordable). So here is my current thinking.

Important requirements:
- must take rear rack
- should have kickstand mount, ideally on chainstay
- must have full mudguards mounts
- must have no toe overlap
- must be comfortable (think audax, not upright but not hardcore road), main use is good surface roads, with some load
- ideally under £2k or not much more above

Nice haves: possibility to mount Rohloff, hidden cables, through axles, dynamo lights, electronic groupsets, carbon
Not important: fat tyres (42+), tubeless, drop bars, super light weight (I don't mind carrying 2 or 4kg more, it's not significant in the grand scheme of things (although I am relatively light)).

Choice #0 Do not do anything. Enjoy the ride as usual. Upgrade components as they become worn out.

#1 Classic solution 1: Genesis TdF 20 2023 https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/genesis-tour-de-fer-20-vargn22420
advantages: tried geometry, confirmed no toe overlap, kickstand on chainstay, nothing to add out of the box
disadvantages: QR, rear triangle not good for Rohloff (I've checked - I don't want to use monkeybone)
price: ~£1700 (or ~£2100 for TdF 30)
Notes: I find my TdF very comfortable and like this sort of frame geometry (more sporty than a classic tourer apparently) very much. But I have not ridden many bikes in my life so it's difficult to compare this to anything. I find TdF noticeably more comfortable than CdF.

Classic solution 2: Kona Sutra SE https://www.konaworld.com/en-eu/products/sutra-se
A: through-axle, extra mounting points on frame, potentially good for Rohloff
D: no kickstand on chainstay (but potentially good for central plate)
price: ~£1550 (but could be had for ~£1350)
Notes: nowhere to try it.

#2 Fancy solution: Orro Terra C / Boardman ADV 9* / Canyon Grizl CF SL 6
https://www.orrobikes.com/product/terra-c-apex-1x
https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/products/2394-adv-9.2.html
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/gravel.../3696.html?dwvar_3696_pv_rahmenfarbe=R095_P11
A: carbon, electronic groupset in Canyon and Boardman, price for the cheapest Orro, Orro has standard rack mounts on rear stays
D: no kickstand mount (can it be mounted on carbon frame at all?), not suitable for pannier touring, press-fit BB, Canyon and Boardman require Tailfin-type rack solutions
price: £1500 for the cheapest Orro Terra C (Apex 1x12) (next one up is £2100) - this was the main impulse to write this post,
£2000 for Boardman 9.0 Road (R7100 105 2x12, I think it has the best groupset for intended use),
~£2300 for Boardman 9.2 or Canyon Grizl CF SL 6 (both on electronic XPLR AXS 1x12),
Notes: they are all very similar, sporty gravel bikes on carbon. I am however thinking of using them mostly if not exclusively as audax/comfortable good surface bikes for my occasional rides and commute. Probably not for pannier touring. Of these models, Orro is in my LBS and Boardman should be in the nearest Halfords. The main point of these bikes to me is the new XPLR AXS 1x12 to try along the carbon (or get the relatively cheap Orro for the frame and upgrade later if needed). This choice would make me keep the TdF for heavy load touring; Boardman appears to have no mudguards mounts I think? Hidden cables are very nice...

#3 Have cake and eat cake solution: Fairlight Secan or Faran
https://fairlightcycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Fairlight-Faran-2.5-Design-Notes-Live.pdf
A: pretty steel, inner cabling for lights, through-axle (potentially good for Rohloff)
D: price (for the price of Secan I can get full carbon gravel with 1x12 electronic gears; or, even better, the cheapest steel touring bike on Rohloff for £2650), no kickstand mounts on chainstays (but potentially good for central plate), nowhere to try it.
price: £2000 for the cheapest Faran, £2600 for the cheapest Secan (both GRX600 2x); add £350 for SON dynamo light upgrade
Note: these have very good reviews online. They are expensive even though seem worth the price. Reviews say they are both sporty geometries, but I slightly worry about relatively short chainstays and wheelbase (compared to TdF or Kona) and a couple of comments online mentioning that Faran with only back panniers is a bit twitchy.

My current leanings are TdF, Faran or Orro, in this order, but they are all quite close together and I can easily justify every one over the others in my mind :-). Any thoughts and comments? I understand that you can't make the choice for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ , but if I miss anything that you think I should consider to bring me closer to the decision, let me know.

IO

 

[rivers]

I have a Terra C- it is an absolutely cracking bike. However, it is only rated for 5kg with a pannier rack- I have a tailfin rack, which I also love. But, I have gone on many adventures with my terra c, use it for daily commuting, and don't really have any complaints about it.

 

[Iorek]

Ha, thanks - I saw your photos in the other thread and I thought it should work great. If I go for it, I'd go for the tailfin-like solution as I like panniers more than bikepacking bags (and panniers are necessary for my commute anyway). And my LBS can easily modify the stock drivetrain configuration as well (the hills around here require 2x...).

 

[dimrub]

I understand the desire for a new and shiny, but frankly, it seems you have the exact platform you need, and you can invest in upgrading whatever components you feel are holding you back, if any. As for Rohloff, I don't have first hand experience, but from general considerations, it's a high risk, high payoff proposition: it's zero maintenance, unless it breaks, and if you're in the middle of Kyrgyzstan, well...

 

[Iorek]

Voice of reason! My TdF is very comfortable indeed.

 

[rivers]

I can't fault my Tailfin. Hands down the best bike related accessories I've bought. I don't particularly a fan of large panniers, and only use then for commuting if necessary (if I'm on site, then I need my steelies, tools, etc and sometimes I need my laptop for work). Mostly I just need a change of clothes and the aeropack works great for that.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Your current bike sounds near perfect; some of the things you are considering (electronic shifting...) sound like a money sink for no good reason.

A couple of suggestions:

(1) get a new personalised paint job for your current bike eg argos cycles who did our tandem in two tone...

(2) Buy an alternative lightweight full on road bike for nice weather commuting.

 

[Emanresu]

Had the same problem last year and came here for advice. Ended up with a custom built bike as I couldn't just find what I wanted. So would suggest you build it or get it built as you have some specific requirements.

While you are working out the specification in your head and with your comment about Kyrgyzstan in mind, here are some ideas for you.

https://bikepacking.com/bikes/2022-silk-road-mountain-race-rigs/

 

[Iorek]

@roubaixtuesday I haven't thought of that (re: reblasting and painting of frame) even though I know of Argos cycling; this could be an option, thanks! And yeah, my TdF has Mavic A319 hand-built wheels, Shimano hydraulic brakes, XT triple drivetrain with 18 gear inches, and a kickstand (albeit central, not on chainstay) .

...your solution #2 sounds to me like "keep the TdF and get Orro Terra C for daily rides and commute" ;-) I do know the expression of n+1...

 

[Iorek]

@Emanresu I have read your thread as well, but I think my situation is a bit more straightforward. I am pretty sure that if money was no object, I would get a 2023 TdF frameset (only for the kickstand mount on the chainstay, which I think is the only difference to my frame, but an important one) and switch my components (with upgraded wheels), and I would also get a Secan as a fast light bike for day trips/commute.

Since I don't want to spend this kind of money, the alternative is to keep the existing bike and get a "cheaper" fast light bike (like the £1.5k Terra C). But, really, my main issue is that I only really need more time to go touring, and the "new bike" is just a substitute topic to imagine myself doing that, only on a new fancy bike. Unfortunately new bikes don't generate more hours in the day. And once one accepts this reality, then @dimrub's advice is correct :-)

But I am not giving up yet of talking myself into a new bike.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

I happen to think that the best bike for touring is the one we have.

For the last 4 years, I've ridden a custom 2020 Genesis TdF

......

The TdF now looks a bit rusty and tired,

4 years old? It's just breaking in. Jazz it up is the simple answer!

update the bike with more modern components (electronic group sets? also possibility of fitting Rohloff would be nice) or materials (steel is indeed real, but carbon is now relatively affordable).

To my way of thinking "modern" is not anywhere near the top of my priorities for a touring bike. Reliability, comfort, running costs, ease of repair/replacement are.
I wouldn't consider a Rohloff for touring anywhere outside of Europe. If something goes wrong the opportunity to and the cost of repair are simultaneously tiny and huge.
Ditto for Carbon.
The thing with touring, especially in adventurous places, is that the bike doesn't receive "normal" treatment. The more specialised, the more customised, the more "special" the more difficult/expensive it is to keep on the road far from home.

Another thing that I think can be overlooked and may well affect different people in different ways is that an expensive bike is a greater responsibility. If your expensive bike stops you going certain places because of a fear of damaging it or theft then it's not really a touring bike.
Speaking only for myself, having an older bike meant that I was far more willing to take it apart and put it back together. A comforting ability when far from home.

It just makes me feel good to know that it can handle everything I am realistically going to throw at it.

That is an incredibly valuable component of your bike.
I can point my bike in any direction, on any kind of a road and not have to worry if my bike can take it.

I'm not a fan of a kick stand for a touring bike - I've rarely needed one - but I understand that your use is beyond touring. I'd suggest investigating a click-stand - a lightweight, super strong, foldable stand that will support a very heavily loaded bike and can double up for all sorts of useful things such as a prop to keep a tent door open or something to hit dogs with.

Nice haves: possibility to mount Rohloff, hidden cables, through axles, dynamo lights, electronic groupsets, carbon

For me, Rohloff is out for real adventure touring in out of the way places.
Hidden cables? No. A PITA if I have to replace on the road.
Through axles. OK.
Dynamo lights. Agreed. And the possibility to charge too.
Electronic groupsets. No way.
Carbon. For adventurous places a firm no.

My "nice to have" if I was getting a new bike would be either folding or S&S Coupling for easier and more secure transport.

my main issue is that I only really need more time to go touring, and the "new bike" is just a substitute topic to imagine myself doing that,

There you go.
Apart from the psychological barriers, in my experience two tangible things stop people from touring - Time & money.
I'm a firm believer in spending my money on experiences rather than things. If you have some money burning a hole open a "Big Adventure" savings account so that when the time does open up you'll have that to draw on. Boring & dull as it is.
Or use that money to "buy" some unpaid leave.

In the meantime, if you're not aware, here's the Kazakhstan section of CGOAB.

For the sake of transparency, my bike is on the wrong side of 25, a bog standard, runt-of-the-litter Trek MTB that has only recently gone 8 speed on the back. He's been welded on the side of the road, been on all kinds of boats, trains and planes and carries any load I ask on any road I point him on - even when there's no road.

Good luck!

 

[Ian H]

I have one bike that I could describe as 'gravel' (I wouldn't, obviously) or as 'touring'. The only difference seems to be the name. I had an amusing conversation recently about the various marketing terms cycle manufacturers have invented over the years.

 

[Iorek]

Thank you @HobbesOnTour, spot on (well, except kickstands, I am prepared to die on that hill ;-). I do still have my bike I got in 1997 and while technically there is nothing wrong with it (I've toured on it with full load and a trailer), there are advantages in newer stuff, like disc brakes, the wheels that weight under a kg, or derallieurs that change gears more reliably etc. Or simply geometries that are more suitable for riding all day long. Plus, the desire for new and shiny just for the sake of it is, occasionally, strong. But I think I am going to park my ideas for now and get back to them in another couple of years, or when circumstances change.

 

[Emanresu]

Doesn't stop you visiting Spa Cycles in Harrogate and having a browse since, I assume, you are not too far

 

[vickster]

Doesn't stop you visiting Spa Cycles in Harrogate and having a browse since, I assume, you are not too far

They don’t take C2W if that’s a necessity