loz
Veteran
- Location
- Tunbridge Wells
porkypete said:
yes, but i guess there are downsides... like when I built up a bike for the first time i ignored the manual for the front derailleur - ended up with a wonky tube due to over tightening!
Doing up a Dawes Galaxy (Shimano bits advice)
- Thread starter Jugular
- Start date
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yes, but i guess there are downsides... like when I built up a bike for the first time i ignored the manual for the front derailleur - ended up with a wonky tube due to over tightening!
Jugular
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Manchester
Thanks for all the advice everyone. Very useful. I'm still unsure of what all the options are but at least the funny Shimano names are a bit more clear.
So between deore/deore XT and Taigra/105 sets which would people suggest. What is the difference there? Is it weight, gear range or durability?
I'm sure as I move through the process I'll have a number of other questions to ask. First and foremost I'm going to check with Paul Hewitt whether it's possible to get it to fit me. If not, it's going on ebay unfortunately. The frame is their largest size at 25.5 inches however with the quill stem and max seatpost height I'm unsure if it's sufficient as I'm 6'4".
So between deore/deore XT and Taigra/105 sets which would people suggest. What is the difference there? Is it weight, gear range or durability?
I'm sure as I move through the process I'll have a number of other questions to ask. First and foremost I'm going to check with Paul Hewitt whether it's possible to get it to fit me. If not, it's going on ebay unfortunately. The frame is their largest size at 25.5 inches however with the quill stem and max seatpost height I'm unsure if it's sufficient as I'm 6'4".
PpPete
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chandler's Ford
Very few frame builders will go bigger than 25" on conventional frames. You start to run into rigidity problems if you go bigger than that.
As for the choice between MTB & Road.... depends on what gearing you want.
If you plan to do any loaded touring or big hills, or occasional forays away from the tarmac, you'll be looking at 11-32 or 11-34 cassettes & triple front rings so MTB mechs are more suitable.
Road cassettes only go up to 11-25 (cheap) or 11-27(expensive) so you have a narrower range of gears but can keep you cadence efficient.
MTB gearing doesnt make it unsuitable for road use though, and it's probably more durable, if a little heavier.
As for the choice between MTB & Road.... depends on what gearing you want.
If you plan to do any loaded touring or big hills, or occasional forays away from the tarmac, you'll be looking at 11-32 or 11-34 cassettes & triple front rings so MTB mechs are more suitable.
Road cassettes only go up to 11-25 (cheap) or 11-27(expensive) so you have a narrower range of gears but can keep you cadence efficient.
MTB gearing doesnt make it unsuitable for road use though, and it's probably more durable, if a little heavier.
Jugular
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Manchester
Thanks porkypete, that's really helpful. I guess I should have worked that out really 
This operation does not make sense in my view. First, you are not even sure if the bike will fit you properly. From what I understand, it may well be too small. Fit, however, is everything.
Second, modernizing a middle of the road frame does not make any financial sense. You pay so much more for parts that you quickly end up with a bike that costs more than a new one. This is all the more so when the rear triangle will have to be reset. Bikes like this Galaxy have 120 or 126 mm rear spacing. Modern road bikes have 130 mm wide rear hub spacing, and modern touring and mtb bikes 135 mm. So that means that the frame needs to be widened by 10-16 mm. Also, this is almost certainly a bike for 27 inch (etrto 630 mm) wheels rather than the modern etrto 622 standard. You can still get rims and tyres for 27 inch, but the choice is now limited. If you replace the wheels with modern ones you will propbably need new brakes with a deeper drop, and if you have cantilever brakes the studs will need to be repositioned.
What you could do, but only if the bike fits properly, is to restore it with new period parts. Just replace the few parts that need to be replaced. You may need to hunt for a new rear hub in the required spacing. Alternatively, it may be possible to rebuild the hubs. I am not sure about your crankset. With luck it only needs new chainrings, and perhaps a new bottom bracket. Downtube shifters last forever, and derailleurs often live a long time too. If not, a modern one will work just fine with old friction shifters. The front mech is often in better shape than the rear, and I hope that it is, as modern ones do not always have the clearance for older drive trains and frames. But there is a lot of new old stock on ebay.
Willem
Second, modernizing a middle of the road frame does not make any financial sense. You pay so much more for parts that you quickly end up with a bike that costs more than a new one. This is all the more so when the rear triangle will have to be reset. Bikes like this Galaxy have 120 or 126 mm rear spacing. Modern road bikes have 130 mm wide rear hub spacing, and modern touring and mtb bikes 135 mm. So that means that the frame needs to be widened by 10-16 mm. Also, this is almost certainly a bike for 27 inch (etrto 630 mm) wheels rather than the modern etrto 622 standard. You can still get rims and tyres for 27 inch, but the choice is now limited. If you replace the wheels with modern ones you will propbably need new brakes with a deeper drop, and if you have cantilever brakes the studs will need to be repositioned.
What you could do, but only if the bike fits properly, is to restore it with new period parts. Just replace the few parts that need to be replaced. You may need to hunt for a new rear hub in the required spacing. Alternatively, it may be possible to rebuild the hubs. I am not sure about your crankset. With luck it only needs new chainrings, and perhaps a new bottom bracket. Downtube shifters last forever, and derailleurs often live a long time too. If not, a modern one will work just fine with old friction shifters. The front mech is often in better shape than the rear, and I hope that it is, as modern ones do not always have the clearance for older drive trains and frames. But there is a lot of new old stock on ebay.
Willem
Jugular
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Manchester
Thanks willem, you make some good points. I'm 70% sure that a longer seat tube (the previous one was cut down to save weight I presume) will alleviate the fit problems, though I'll then need to check if the reach to the handlebars is comfortable. Having said that it's a compact frame and I don't currently feel stretched so it should fit.
I'm sure some people would argue that old galaxy frames are not middle of the road as it's handbuilt and it is 531 tubing, it's certainly as good as a new galaxy frame. Having done a quick estimation with Shimano 105 parts I think I could renovate the bike to a high standard for £800 (including £400 for handbuilt wheels). This would still be cheaper than a new Galaxy. With new brakes and a renovation already on the cards moving the studs would cost £10 which is not going to break tha bank. Resetting the rear triangle would also only cost a small fee.
All of this being the case you make a good point about just replacing some parts. The failing of the Galaxy currently is that the dual pivot brakes are a nightmare to adjust, the seatpost needs replacing, it only has 10 gears and the rear derailleur spring has given up. The bottom bracket is in reasonable nick as are the chain rings (it's barely been ridden since original purchase). I would like to replace the wheels as modern hubs are just so much more efficient and repainting the bike would really protect it long-term, at which point the chainrings will need replacing and the rear derailleur needs replacing anyway, so I may as well replace the whole drivetrain.
My first thought was to turn this into a fixed wheel bike, you're making me think that even that would be a big task.
Maybe a Hewitt Cheviot is on the cards after all.
I'm sure some people would argue that old galaxy frames are not middle of the road as it's handbuilt and it is 531 tubing, it's certainly as good as a new galaxy frame. Having done a quick estimation with Shimano 105 parts I think I could renovate the bike to a high standard for £800 (including £400 for handbuilt wheels). This would still be cheaper than a new Galaxy. With new brakes and a renovation already on the cards moving the studs would cost £10 which is not going to break tha bank. Resetting the rear triangle would also only cost a small fee.
All of this being the case you make a good point about just replacing some parts. The failing of the Galaxy currently is that the dual pivot brakes are a nightmare to adjust, the seatpost needs replacing, it only has 10 gears and the rear derailleur spring has given up. The bottom bracket is in reasonable nick as are the chain rings (it's barely been ridden since original purchase). I would like to replace the wheels as modern hubs are just so much more efficient and repainting the bike would really protect it long-term, at which point the chainrings will need replacing and the rear derailleur needs replacing anyway, so I may as well replace the whole drivetrain.
My first thought was to turn this into a fixed wheel bike, you're making me think that even that would be a big task.
Maybe a Hewitt Cheviot is on the cards after all.
loz
Veteran
- Location
- Tunbridge Wells
Jugular
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Manchester
It was intended as an illustrative top end estimate. If I spent that amount I would expect it to be better than a recent Super Galaxy, as that wouldn't have a handmade frame, or handbuilt wheels. I would also be lucky to find a large framed second hand bike in good nick that fits me. I might as well get a custom built bike for another £400 at that point.
You mention that it has hardly been ridden at all. So why would you need to replace any parts other than the seat post (that is what it is called) or de derailleur (or even just the spring). I do not see how modern hubs are more efficient, let alone a lot more efficient. They are not. Of course 10 speed is only 10 speed. But if judiciously chosen they will get you a long way. 14-28 rear clusters are still quite easy to get, and IRD also do a 5 speed 13-32 Megarange that should get you up almost anything. See: http://www.interlocracing.com/freewheelbreakdown.html Use a modern mtb derailleur and you are fine and you do not need to hunt for that spring.
As for the brakes, I am not sure if you know what the brakes that you have are called. Dual pivot sidepulls are a later invention. Do you mean centrepull brakes, or perhaps even cantilever brakes? These should be fine, but will certainly need new cables and preferably Koolstop Salmon brakeshoes. And yes, cantilevers are not the easiest brakes to service. For that, get Shimano (Deore) V brakes and the Tektro V brake specific drop bar levers.
Willem
As for the brakes, I am not sure if you know what the brakes that you have are called. Dual pivot sidepulls are a later invention. Do you mean centrepull brakes, or perhaps even cantilever brakes? These should be fine, but will certainly need new cables and preferably Koolstop Salmon brakeshoes. And yes, cantilevers are not the easiest brakes to service. For that, get Shimano (Deore) V brakes and the Tektro V brake specific drop bar levers.
Willem
Jugular
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Manchester
You're absolutely right willem. Seatpost, cantilever brakes etc.
Thanks for the link for the chainset. I'm perfectly happy riding on fewer gears as long as the range is wide enough and replacements can be sourced. I wan't sure that modern rear derailleurs would work with old chainsets but you tell me they do, which is good news. I may still look into rebuilds of my wheels, perhaps with some modern rims, but original hubs, if they're good enough. Would I need to move the brake nipples to fit Deore v-brakes?
The only other replacements are the perished brake hoods (but they'll be replaced if I get the tektro brake levers), handlebar grip that's got bird poo on it, slightly damaged mudguards and perhaps spd pedals. The bottom bracket has no play and the headset appears to be fine. By all accounts it's only ever ridden about 1,000 miles.
Thanks for the link for the chainset. I'm perfectly happy riding on fewer gears as long as the range is wide enough and replacements can be sourced. I wan't sure that modern rear derailleurs would work with old chainsets but you tell me they do, which is good news. I may still look into rebuilds of my wheels, perhaps with some modern rims, but original hubs, if they're good enough. Would I need to move the brake nipples to fit Deore v-brakes?
The only other replacements are the perished brake hoods (but they'll be replaced if I get the tektro brake levers), handlebar grip that's got bird poo on it, slightly damaged mudguards and perhaps spd pedals. The bottom bracket has no play and the headset appears to be fine. By all accounts it's only ever ridden about 1,000 miles.
Unless you are setting up a museum, it is worth thinking very carefully about expenditure. I see at least one shop offering a new 2009 Galaxy for GBP 863. The sensible course with an old bike, assuming it fits, is to do the minimum upgrades possible.
A thirty year old bike probably cost about GBP 250, and started to depreciate as soon as it left the shop, so its written down value is rather low. As an example, a few years ago I bought a ladies 531 Raleigh Royale from a local bike shop for GBP 55. This may be about the minimum you could expect to pay for such a machine, but bearing in mind depreciation, the inability to check thoroughly for wear and rust, it is also close to the maximum I would expect to pay. I thought the price appropriate to the possibility that it might only serve as as source of spares for our other bikes of similar age. In fact it has turned out to be in very good condition, and is now my wife's preferred machine. It now has butterfly bars (about GBP 40 with brake levers), and a triple chain set (GBP 35), also new kevlar belted tyres, but you can see how the cost begins to develop.
A thirty year old bike probably cost about GBP 250, and started to depreciate as soon as it left the shop, so its written down value is rather low. As an example, a few years ago I bought a ladies 531 Raleigh Royale from a local bike shop for GBP 55. This may be about the minimum you could expect to pay for such a machine, but bearing in mind depreciation, the inability to check thoroughly for wear and rust, it is also close to the maximum I would expect to pay. I thought the price appropriate to the possibility that it might only serve as as source of spares for our other bikes of similar age. In fact it has turned out to be in very good condition, and is now my wife's preferred machine. It now has butterfly bars (about GBP 40 with brake levers), and a triple chain set (GBP 35), also new kevlar belted tyres, but you can see how the cost begins to develop.
Jugular
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Manchester
I don't think the discounted cashflow and depreciation approach is very relevant. However I agree that the minimum upgrade cost is the way to go. I just need to find out what exactly the measurements are and what can and cannot be easily replaced. So my job for the weekend is to drag it out into the light and properly appraise it.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to do that this weekend after the Wilmslow Origami ride.
My estimations from memory are that I need (approx. price):
£18 Tektro RL520 Brake Levers (compatible with v-Brakes)
£24 Shimano Deore V-Brakes
£28 Shimano Deore Rear Derailleur
£25 Seatpost
£15 Bar Tape
£30 MegaRange Freewheel
----
£140
Hopefully I'll get a chance to do that this weekend after the Wilmslow Origami ride.
My estimations from memory are that I need (approx. price):
£18 Tektro RL520 Brake Levers (compatible with v-Brakes)
£24 Shimano Deore V-Brakes
£28 Shimano Deore Rear Derailleur
£25 Seatpost
£15 Bar Tape
£30 MegaRange Freewheel
----
£140
I can see why you want to change those things for modern ones, so you are right to move on to a careful examination of what will and will not fit, and be careful not to go to a lot of trouble trying to make it what it will never be. Nevertheless, I feel rather attracted to the 5 speed 13-32 block myself, but do I really want to spend double the price of a 14-28?
I guess that you are younger than the bike, when the bike was young no one expected V brake type performance.....
I guess that you are younger than the bike, when the bike was young no one expected V brake type performance.....
Jugular
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Manchester
I've given the Galaxy a mini service involving a good clean all over including trying to degrease the heavily oiled chain. While doing that I made sure to look out for any rust. The only place I saw anything worrying was on the right chain stay which has a few patches of rough or chipped paint with rust.
I then tried to get on with replacing the broken spoke. It was on the drive side of the rear wheel so went about getting the block removed. I tied it to the back of my Brompton where it promptly destroyed the rear light and took it to a shop. They did the old vice trick and two more spokes popped.
Now... what to do?!
Is this possible to remedy.
I could either get a new 27 1 1/4 inch wheel which would reduce current updates or get a 700C wheel and open up more options and ease of futur updates, but have the problem of renovating the distances of everything on the frame.
I then tried to get on with replacing the broken spoke. It was on the drive side of the rear wheel so went about getting the block removed. I tied it to the back of my Brompton where it promptly destroyed the rear light and took it to a shop. They did the old vice trick and two more spokes popped.
Now... what to do?!
Is this possible to remedy.
I could either get a new 27 1 1/4 inch wheel which would reduce current updates or get a 700C wheel and open up more options and ease of futur updates, but have the problem of renovating the distances of everything on the frame.
