E10 petrol. Coming to a forecourt near you, soon..
Could cause issues with older cars.
~ Is your car compatible? ~
gov.uk link
Could cause issues with older cars.
~ Is your car compatible? ~
gov.uk link
E10 petrol
- Thread starter PeteXXX
- Start date
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oldwheels
Legendary Member
- Location
- Isle of Mull
My old Commer used 2 star and the MGB used leaded but I got the cylinder head altered to cope with unleaded.
Slick
Guru
Can't see many doing anything like that to cope with E10.
My cycle carrier and rubbish carrier to the dump (ie a 19yr old Zafira), is OK for the E10 fuel.
Brandane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Costa Clyde
Six year old Suzuki S-Cross car is ok..
Surprisingly, so is 19 year old Honda VFR 800 bike.
Surprisingly, so is 19 year old Honda VFR 800 bike.
BoldonLad
Not part of the Elite
- Location
- South Tyneside
Car is a diesel, so, not applicable, but, 9 year old Yamaha xMax 250 Scooter is OK.
a.twiddler
Veteran
Well, we went through this with the introduction of unleaded petrol. Its impact on older cars and motorcycles resulted in the gradual disappearance of older run of the mill vehicles as their value fell below the economic costs of modifying cylinder heads to suit, and if the percentage of ethanol is going to be gradually increased to reduce emissions then more and more modern vehicles will be affected.
As I understand it petrol vehicles built from 1993-on should mostly be able to use E10 though they might not run as well as with 100% petrol but the ethanol could still affect seals in the injection systems and engines. I can foresee E15, maybe E20 (if that is feasible) leading to a further decline in petrol engine usability. That, and increasing taxes on internal combustion engine vehicles and their fuel and at least initially subsidising new electric vehicles will eventually reduce petrol and diesel vehicles to the level of specialist enthusiasts' vehicles.
There could be a compelling case for a scrappage scheme too. Perhaps the late 2020s and 2030s will be remembered for a great cull of obsolete technology as there was on the UK railway system with the end of steam. There are millions of them about, but how long before the cut off date in January 2030 for petrol and diesel production would their running costs be artificially increased enough to encourage the change to electric? There would be masses of them about after 2030 but would the high VED and cost of fuel make them too expensive to run? It would take a government with big balls and excellent organisation to do this, not been much evidence of these commodities to date. If they don't get it right, it could cause hardship for thousands, maybe millions. PLUS the biggie, the reduction of emissions which even the most reclusive troglodite petrolhead must by now realise is a priority.
And as for motorcycles, and as a lifelong motorcyclist it saddens me to say this, bikes nowadays have largely been relegated to the status of fine weather toys, with the resultant lack of investment in affordable daily transport either with petrol engines or electric. Electric scooters as town transport are a start, and building upwards from that base to produce usable affordable bikes with decent performance and range should follow, compared with the high performance short range offerings we are seeing at unaffordable limited production prices at present.
My interest in this is that I have a 1995 Honda NTV650P (model year 93-94 or 5 model) which I suppose just scrapes through the '93 barrier. It's in daily use. A proper old school Honda. It's my second one. I wondered what I was going to replace that one with, and the answer was, this one!
As for a replacement, petrol or otherwise, between whenever this needs replacing and 2030, I will be 78 by then so if I'm still functioning then, marvellous, otherwise it's all academic. At present there are no electric candidates.
Back to cars. Meh. Just a device to cart my bicycles about. I've got no emotional attachment to what might power it. My worry is that with the disappearance of cheap petrol and diesel cars the replacements are going to be out of my reach, and that of many others too.. Either because they are going to be too new to be affordable by myself and others, as a secondhand market needs time to build up and stabilise, or just too relatively less available than their predecessors.
There are going to be interesting times ahead.
As I understand it petrol vehicles built from 1993-on should mostly be able to use E10 though they might not run as well as with 100% petrol but the ethanol could still affect seals in the injection systems and engines. I can foresee E15, maybe E20 (if that is feasible) leading to a further decline in petrol engine usability. That, and increasing taxes on internal combustion engine vehicles and their fuel and at least initially subsidising new electric vehicles will eventually reduce petrol and diesel vehicles to the level of specialist enthusiasts' vehicles.
There could be a compelling case for a scrappage scheme too. Perhaps the late 2020s and 2030s will be remembered for a great cull of obsolete technology as there was on the UK railway system with the end of steam. There are millions of them about, but how long before the cut off date in January 2030 for petrol and diesel production would their running costs be artificially increased enough to encourage the change to electric? There would be masses of them about after 2030 but would the high VED and cost of fuel make them too expensive to run? It would take a government with big balls and excellent organisation to do this, not been much evidence of these commodities to date. If they don't get it right, it could cause hardship for thousands, maybe millions. PLUS the biggie, the reduction of emissions which even the most reclusive troglodite petrolhead must by now realise is a priority.
And as for motorcycles, and as a lifelong motorcyclist it saddens me to say this, bikes nowadays have largely been relegated to the status of fine weather toys, with the resultant lack of investment in affordable daily transport either with petrol engines or electric. Electric scooters as town transport are a start, and building upwards from that base to produce usable affordable bikes with decent performance and range should follow, compared with the high performance short range offerings we are seeing at unaffordable limited production prices at present.
My interest in this is that I have a 1995 Honda NTV650P (model year 93-94 or 5 model) which I suppose just scrapes through the '93 barrier. It's in daily use. A proper old school Honda. It's my second one. I wondered what I was going to replace that one with, and the answer was, this one!
As for a replacement, petrol or otherwise, between whenever this needs replacing and 2030, I will be 78 by then so if I'm still functioning then, marvellous, otherwise it's all academic. At present there are no electric candidates.
Back to cars. Meh. Just a device to cart my bicycles about. I've got no emotional attachment to what might power it. My worry is that with the disappearance of cheap petrol and diesel cars the replacements are going to be out of my reach, and that of many others too.. Either because they are going to be too new to be affordable by myself and others, as a secondhand market needs time to build up and stabilise, or just too relatively less available than their predecessors.
There are going to be interesting times ahead.
mistyoptic
Vintage
- Location
- A parallel reality
Already on Sainsbury’s forecourts round here
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
Mine is a 2010 Honda - apparently all Hondas of this age are OK
I heard that the old scrappage scheme was far less expensive than it appeared
the government made money from the tax and VAT which pretty much made up for the costs
it would seem that we are heading for a point where-once the charging infrastructure is in place - for a new scrappage scheme where people with a car more than x years old can scrap it in trade for a new electric vehicle at a lower cost
I was kinda hoping (in a fit of hopeless optimism) that the last election would result in a government that needed the support of several Green votes (whether actually Green Party or others that supported Green policies) and policies such as this would get a kick up the ladder
I heard that the old scrappage scheme was far less expensive than it appeared
the government made money from the tax and VAT which pretty much made up for the costs
it would seem that we are heading for a point where-once the charging infrastructure is in place - for a new scrappage scheme where people with a car more than x years old can scrap it in trade for a new electric vehicle at a lower cost
I was kinda hoping (in a fit of hopeless optimism) that the last election would result in a government that needed the support of several Green votes (whether actually Green Party or others that supported Green policies) and policies such as this would get a kick up the ladder
September 1st at my local Shell forecourt..
Brandane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Costa Clyde
I assume that E10 petrol will of course be cheaper to buy, because of it's lower oil content?
And then I woke up.....
And then I woke up.....
a.twiddler
Veteran
I seem to recall that while the motor industry was faffing about the introduction of unleaded petrol most Japanese bike makers were well ahead of the curve, already fitted with hardened valve seats etc due to their existing exports to the USA and particularly California who had been an early adopter of unleaded. I just hope that they are in the same situation regarding E10. Ethanol is apparently quite hard on flexible items such as fuel lines and seals and some materials such as brass, especially if the vehicle is stored rather than used regularly. My old carburettored bike might suffer with icing issues while warming up as ethanol is hygroscopic, that is, absorbs moisture from the air. Then again it might not. Probably if fuel injected, a petrol engine would not have this problem. Honda used to make bikes in Brazil where they use biofuels as well as for worldwide export (eg CG125s) so you would hope they were already using the know how.
Scrappage could be good, but not so good for those who might be looking for an old banger to get around in for 2 or 3 years before it gets scrapped and replaced with something similar. New cars, new technology, might be targeted at the buy new and sell after 2 years market, or the lease market. It could be a good few years before a large number of such cars could trickle down to the less well off market.
Getting a proper integrated public transport system set up that everyone could afford would be the ideal solution but realistically, not likely to happen unless there is a massive change in public perception and demand. We've had about 60 years of people getting used to ever increasing numbers of private vehicles on our doorsteps and it's hard to change those expectations-not that we shouldn't try.
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T.M.H.N.E.T
Rainbows aren't just for world champions
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Not even close, will use slightly more of it tooI assume that E10 petrol will of course be cheaper to buy, because of it's lower oil content?
And then I woke up.....
