Face masks on public transport.

[Notafettler]

On second thoughts you are right. All waps are nasty.

 

[vickster]

Do we really have to bend the knee for Bacteria?? I struggle to stand up again at the start of every football match.
BTW I think all insect lives matter
Apart from those bl**dy nast wasps.

Bacteria aren't insects and vice versa

 

[Dave7]

Bacteria aren't insects and vice versa

Yes, I realised that and was going to change it but thought "what the hell, no one will pick me up on it"

 

[a.twiddler]

There is always some that are right but as they dont all have the same view the best one to follow is the one with the view you like. That way you can blame them. "I was only following the experts view".
For instance Giles Corbyn Awarded a first class BSc degree in physics in 1968.
He went onto research superconductivity and MSC astrophysics.
His beliefs;-
Earthquakes are product of solar energy.
Global warming is not manmade. In fact he claims the earth is cooling, any increase is a product of ....is solar energy related.
coronavirus is 5G conspiracy?
He also blames Bill gates for coronavirus.
Yet his weather prediction company is still used and quoted by newspapers.
I have decided to believe him reference climate change not being man made and not Margaret Thatcher who claimed it was man made...what would she know!

Surely you mean Piers Corbyn? If you choose to believe what this chap believes, which is not supported by mainstream science, and who actually is not a climatologist, at least you can do him the courtesy of getting his name right.

 

[MarkF]

If there was a time for face masks, and I can accept there was one, it was a long time ago. With the infection rate today at 0.04% masks do not make sense unless you are advocating their use to protect you from some infinesimal risk from now until forever. 0.04%....how safe do you want to be before you "live" again?

My personal experience leads me to think that the ones we generally see on pubic transport are pretty much useless, wear one, don't wear one, don't fall out about it, I doubt it makes any difference.

 

[cookiemonster]

Just to nuance that a bit. The study was carried out on hamsters, was carried out using surgical masks and the hamsters didn't wear a mask (surgical masks were used as dividers between the experimental cages).

That's so far as I can tell. But in true covid-style science, the results were announced prior to publication of a peer reviewed article.

I am not at all sure how the 66% to 16% numbers would map onto a real world (sic) situation.

Yes but the proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes. Hong Kong has one of the lowest infection and mortality rates in the world, 75% of our infections have been imported, and universal masking has been normal since late January. Masks are not the only thing but the proof is that they do work.

 

[screenman]

If there was a time for face masks, and I can accept there was one, it was a long time ago. With the infection rate today at 0.04% masks do not make sense unless you are advocating their use to protect you from some infinesimal risk from now until forever. 0.04%....how safe do you want to be before you "live" again?

My personal experience leads me to think that the ones we generally see on pubic transport are pretty much useless, wear one, don't wear one, don't fall out about it, I doubt it makes any difference.

Surely a mask would stop the mess people shove out when they sneeze or cough though, has anyone tried blowing a lot match out whilst holding a piece of tissue in front of their mouth. It has never occurred to me that a mask is for my benefit.

 

[Rocky]

If there was a time for face masks, and I can accept there was one, it was a long time ago. With the infection rate today at 0.04% masks do not make sense unless you are advocating their use to protect you from some infinesimal risk from now until forever. 0.04%....how safe do you want to be before you "live" again?

My personal experience leads me to think that the ones we generally see on pubic transport are pretty much useless, wear one, don't wear one, don't fall out about it, I doubt it makes any difference.

Mark - you are spreading false information and this is incredibly dangerous. People are still dying of Covid despite lockdown. Until R0 is zero, people will get infected and some will die. I think you simply don’t understand what the infection rate means.

A huge body of evidence supports the use of masks on public transport and in enclosed spaces. Their use might be uncomfortable or go against libertarian views, but they are one of the ways we’ll get Covid under control.

BTW the infection rate is not 0.04%. You are out by a factor of 20.

Edit: current infection rate is 0.7-0.9

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-r-number-in-the-uk

 

[srw]

BTW the infection rate is not 0.04%. You are out by a factor of 20.

Edit: current infection rate is 0.7-0.9

R is at 0.7 - 0.9 - but that's the estimated rate of transmission. Mark is referring to the estimated rate of infection - the proportion of the population infected. Which is, in the general community, 0.04%. In a different thread he's linked to the ONS report.

Although both those "is" should be "was". Because of the time it takes to gather information and process it the estimates are over a week out of date.

 

[Rocky]

R is at 0.7 - 0.9 - but that's the estimated rate of transmission. Mark is referring to the estimated rate of infection - the proportion of the population infected. Which is, in the general community, 0.04%. In a different thread he's linked to the ONS report.

Although both those "is" should be "was". Because of the time it takes to gather information and process it the estimates are over a week out of date.

Fair point - and apologies to @MarkF for the confusion. However, until it is zero - people are still going to get infected. Indeed, looking at the link I posted, for every ten people infected in Mark's part of the world, they will, on average, pass it on to seven to nine other people. Also, the latest ONS figures suggest that the rate of infection in Yorkshire and the NE is nearer to 0.09% (double Mark's figure)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...onaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/2july2020

This is not over till the rate is zero, which is the point I was making. I would also add that it is irresponsible for people to downplay the infectiousness of Covid and the danger that it presents to human life and the economy.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

to protect you from some infinesimal risk from now until forever. 0.04%....how safe do you want to be before you "live" again?

Yes, it's 0.04% now, but the growth rate of the uncontrolled virus is exponential with a doubling time of ~3.5 days.

So it quadruples every week.

Now: 0.04%
Week 1: 0.16%
Week 2: 0.64%
Week 3: 2.56%
Week 4: 10.24%

That's 6 million people infected within a month.

It's not your personal risk today a mask is protecting against. It's the risk to the whole population a few weeks hence.

Failure to understand the implications of exponential growth is why we have the worst death rate in the world.

 

[bitsandbobs]

Yes but the proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes. Hong Kong has one of the lowest infection and mortality rates in the world, 75% of our infections have been imported, and universal masking has been normal since late January. Masks are not the only thing but the proof is that they do work.

The evidence, taken as a whole, certainly seems to suggest that mask wearing has a beneficial effect, and potentially a big effect. And there doesn't seem to be much of a downside, other than the environmental one.

I guess my point was more that scientists need to be careful about making lurid claims and should caveat their work more strongly (although sometimes that's media issue over which scientists have little control). It would also help if they actually put some kind of paper together so the work can be scrutinized, rather than holding press conferences.

 

[Magorhoop]

Compulsory facemarks ... compulsory vaccination, compulsory curfews, .... Compulsory ... It's not the British way ......

One of the reasons things here are so bad is because of the great British I know better attitude 🙄

 

[cookiemonster]

The evidence, taken as a whole, certainly seems to suggest that mask wearing has a beneficial effect, and potentially a big effect. And there doesn't seem to be much of a downside, other than the environmental one.

I guess my point was more that scientists need to be careful about making lurid claims and should caveat their work more strongly (although sometimes that's media issue over which scientists have little control). It would also help if they actually put some kind of paper together so the work can be scrutinized, rather than holding press conferences.

The guy who led this study is the Dean of the Faculty of Medicine at Hong Kong Uni and is widely respected throughout Asia for his expertise. He's not the kind of person to make lurid claims and I'm sure there is a paper either ready or in the process of being put together.

I agree though with your points otherwise.

 

[cookiemonster]

One of the reasons things here are so bad is because of the great British English I know better attitude 🙄

FTFY