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Froome and Wiggins TUEs

Discussion in 'Pro Cycling (Road and Track Racing)' started by Joffey, 15 Sep 2016.

  1. mjr

    mjr Wanting to Keep My EU Citizenship

    Isn't it more like gaining entry (in a non-destructive way, like if they left a window open?) and photographing some documents from an unlocked filing cabinet? Still wrong, but trespass and espionage more than B&E or stealing.

    Not said but implied and there it is again. What ability is it testing, though? Cycling? Tactics? Or genetic qualities such as high VO2, lactic acid tolerance or not having asthma? I suggest that testing cycling and tactics are sport and the last is indeed eugenics and NOT the point of sport, elite level or not.

    To be fair, I'm not sure that British Cycling or Team Sky understand the difference either, hence stuff like the unwarranted continuing emphasis on time trialling in this country and the part of the Sky plan that seems to be basically attempting to hire the most powerful riders and boringly grind along at max power whenever they think others can't match them. Some of the most entertaining bits of Team Sky riding are when Froome apparently just can't resist trying shoot out or striking at a less-than-theoretically-ideal time in the hope of surprising competitors.
  2. smutchin

    smutchin Cat 6 Racer

    The Red Enclave
    Given the past record of the UCI, your faith in their procedures seems somewhat naive... or is it wilfully blind?
    Siclo likes this.
  3. jowwy

    jowwy The bearded Powerhouse

    naive, wilfully blind or don't really care..........either way the same answer, team sky/wiggins have done what they were legally allowed to do within the rules of the TUE system that was set out and administered by the UCI to then investigate them for wrong doing would be a waste of every ones time and money

    so why not just concentrate on closing all those loopholes and grey areas, so in the future things like this would be a lot harder to do..............everyone knew about the marginal gains mantra, but also everyone knew how the TUE system worked too.....i'm pretty sure its not just wiggins/sky that have crossed the imaginary ethical line, that people want to bump their gums about. Froome also had TUEs around the same time, so why aren't people calling him a cheat and asking for him to be investigated too.........
    Illaveago likes this.
  4. Mister Paul

    Mister Paul Legendary Member

    I think that the fundamental problem is that the loopholes are being found in measures introduced to help. It's like tax manoeuvring -new legislation comes out to help one group, and immediately people start trying to work out how it can be made to benefit those it's not intended for.
  5. jowwy

    jowwy The bearded Powerhouse

    but how do we know without speculation that wiggins/froome/sky etal benefited when there was no need..................................in shane suttons recent interview he stated that he seen the problems caused by wiggins illness after every training session.....

    so who are we to judge and say he gained an unfair advantage for taking a drug that he wasn't needed? the difference with the lance case was that he sued and bullied people and gained huge amounts of money from a state sponsor after each tdf win
  6. Siclo

    Siclo Senior Member

    No I'm not equating LA and BW but...

    ....scuttlebutt says Sky are rather keen on the use of the legal dept and Fran Millar certainly has form for some less than exemplary behaviour towards Sky's critics, not sure even LA would stoop to the depths she's plumbed.

    Hmm...very dodgy line between Sky and BC.....evidence of shared medicines....lottery funding........it's getting awful close to a plausibly deniable state funded doping program
    mjr likes this.
  7. mjr

    mjr Wanting to Keep My EU Citizenship

    And in my experience, BC's HQ's standard practice is simply to ignore hard questions and shut up. I guess it's better than attempts to bully, but still not a model of openness and public service. I think the main reason there were any attempts to answer this time is that it is reasonably likely to influence the government who I think pay a big chunk of their income.
    Siclo likes this.
  8. Siclo

    Siclo Senior Member

    Yes, UK Sport have already threatened to withdraw BC's funding.

    Shane Sutton calling on BW and Freeman to "just tell the truth" is interesting, kind of implies that they haven't been. Sutton has certainly been less than helpful to BW.
  9. jowwy

    jowwy The bearded Powerhouse

    team sky are not state sponsored and this isn't a BC team issue..........as far as i am aware
  10. jowwy

    jowwy The bearded Powerhouse

    but isnt he calling on him to tell the truth on whether he used the drug out of competition and not just under TUE?
  11. Siclo

    Siclo Senior Member

    But BC are state sponsored and both organisations have been slapped by the auditors for lack of seperation

    I think he called for them to reveal what was administered and when.

    It strikes me that the narrative is unravelling somewhat, initially the med was for allergies, lately it's become for asthma.
  12. I agree on this. With all the info available I very much doubt there will ever be enough for a case for fraudulent TUE-ing. There's enough doubt for people some people to be able to decide one way and others to decide another. I don't think there will be much more to be gained from this particular case. I could be wrong, but it would take some very significant new evidence to emerge.

    Far better to concentrate on how to tighten things up, whether some of the MPCC-promoted policies are worth considering.
  13. Bollo

    Bollo Chaaaaaa!

    OK, I'll keep it short this time.

    Are you saying that genetic factors do not or should not play a role in the success of a professional sportsperson?

    What is THE POINT of sport, if sport is only allowed to have one point across all ranges of ability and participation?
  14. jowwy

    jowwy The bearded Powerhouse

    i am not aware of the fact the narrative as changed at all.............bradley was never interviewed by the MPs so his narrative as always been the same. unless you can post up evidence of the differing narratives you speak of

    also BC wasn't paying bradleys wages, team sky was....so again no financial gain, unlike lance who gained millions
  15. Froome has had a pop at Lappartient, said "yar boo sucks, I can ride so I will" and pointed out that any wins he achieves will stand, because any ban will start at the time of the verdict and will not be retrospective. So it's in his interest to drag things out. No, he didn't actually say that, he said "I’m obviously doing everything I can to get this resolved as quickly as possible". But he may have had his fingers crossed behind his back.

    mjr likes this.