e-rider
crappy member
- Location
- South West
there is nothing wrong with Open Pro rims, but unlike 15 years ago when they were the market leader, today there are many other options, many of which are better
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dan_bo
How much does it cost to Oldham?
Better how though? want a light shallow racing rim brake rim and they're right up there. just had a tub set built up for cross. They're more than fine.
I like Skol
A Minging Manc...
- Location
- Sunny Ashton-under-Lyne
This^^^^^ What was good then is still good now. Others may have upped their game (I say may have!) and are catching up but it takes time to build loyalty and a reputation like Mavic.
Shadow
member
- Location
- edge of the south downs
As you have already spoken to @Spoked Wheels, you probably do not need to look at this thread!
Many happy CC'ers have made use of his sterling services. And yes, if you suggested I might be biased I would not disagree.
Many happy CC'ers have made use of his sterling services. And yes, if you suggested I might be biased I would not disagree.
winjim
Smash the cistern
Exactly. It's not terribly useful to say something is "better" without explaining why you think that. Tell us your reasons and we might all learn something.
vickster
Legendary Member
I could have had the H son but I don't like the look of them, even if they are 'better' in some unquantifiable way for a recreational/leisure cyclist. I needed something to replace Fulcrum 5s which were struggling on the tourer with my weight plus luggage, so went for a heavily spoked hand built set which weighs no more than those replaced (now on the carbon bike)
OP
OP
EasyPeez
Veteran
- Location
- Cottingham, East Yorkshire
Yes, I have spoken to @Spoked Wheels and have been grateful for his advice. I wasn't aware of the thread you've linked to so will enjoy reading through that. If his services continue to be on offer in the coming months when I can finally get the funds together I'll be dropping him a line to place an order. Cheers.
OP
OP
EasyPeez
Veteran
- Location
- Cottingham, East Yorkshire
@Yellow Saddle - just wondered if you had any suggestions of better cartridge-bearing alternatives to the Hope hubs? I thought you had been quite glowing about them in other threads but your post earlier in this thread seemed quite negative. Any idea of average bearing life in mileage from your experience?
@Spoked Wheels - what are your thoughts on Hope hubs? I'm a bit scared of the idea of trying to service non-cartridge bearings myself as have read that there's more of an art to it/it can be quite a faff to get the hang of...
Cheers.
@Spoked Wheels - what are your thoughts on Hope hubs? I'm a bit scared of the idea of trying to service non-cartridge bearings myself as have read that there's more of an art to it/it can be quite a faff to get the hang of...
Cheers.
OP
OP
EasyPeez
Veteran
- Location
- Cottingham, East Yorkshire
Thanks for the info.
Forgive my naivety, but looking at the Sapim specs on their website, when it comes to the strength rating am I right in thinking that the lower this number is the stronger the spoke?
Strength on middle section: 1250 N/mm2
I would have presumed the opposite - but then I am quite thick!
Thanks.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
- Location
- The Red Enclave
Bear in mind that the strength rating is given by area, and a thicker spoke will have a greater area over its cross section - eg 1.77mm2 for Laser vs 2.54mm2 for Race.
For the overall strength of the finished wheel, number of spokes is a more significant factor.
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
I have just done a search for everything I've written with the words Hope hubs in it and found four mentions, nothing glowing.
Am I missing something or getting senile?
Bearing life is a moving target. Lots of wet riding and power hose cleaning equals poor life. Lots of dry riding and careful cleaning equals good life. That's the general rule but there are plenty of overlays. All cartridge bearing hubs using deep groove bearings are compromises. Deep groove bearings should not be used on bicycle wheels, they should be specc'd with angular contact bearings. However, that requires a mechanic who knows how to preload them and there's the problem.
But I'll attempt to answer the question as vaguely as possible. If you service your Shimano hubs once per year and have to replace at least a cone or the balls, you'd have had to replace 6 cartridge bearings in your pair of Hope hubs, given the same mileage. There are 8 in the pair. The equivalent cost would have been 1 for Shimano, 6 for Hope.
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
I'm not sure if I'm enjoying this or not, but there's nothing on TV, so....
All Sapim spokes are made from the same steel. All of them.
I have no idea what "rated" means. Sapim certainly doesn't "rate" anything, only give some marketing BS.
A Race spoke cannot be "heavy" for a double butted spoke. What on earth is he talking about. The density of a given Stainless Steel is a given. The length and diameter of a spoke of a certain length is a given. The lengths of the butts are a given. Where then does the variation come in to make a spoke "heavy for a double butted"" It is absolute nonsense. Absolute.
Further SAPIM butts are shorter than DT Swiss butts, which makes a Sapim spoke of a given length lighter than the DT equivalent. Only Wheelsmith spokes have shorter butts than SAPIM.
The centre shank of a Revolution spoke is 1.5mm. The centre shank of a D-Light spokes is 1.65mm. The centre shank of a Race spoke is 1.8mm. Given those figures, there's nothing else to say about what they weigh. They weigh what they weigh because dimensions are dimensions. There's no where to save weight or hide weight on solid wire.
The compatibility story is all BS as well. All 2mm spokes are "compatible" with all hubs on the planet.
If you take the marketing blurbs from SAPIM and DT and mix them all up and randomly slice them, you'll find that they still refer to whatever spoke you put them next to. It is NONSENSE.
The use of the word "massive" was a joke. Right?
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Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
When talking about wheels the word "strength" has no meaning. Every single bicycle wheel I know is strong enough for the job. Many are not durable enough to keep on doing it for tens of thousands of kilometers, but they certainly are strong enough. Lots has been written here about the issue. Search for something like "strength vs durability" or some such. It's all explained there.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
- Location
- The Red Enclave
Yes. As was use of the word enjoy.
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
See what I said to Smutchin' above. Strength is irrelevant and thus applying the tensile strength of stainless over a given diameter of wire is totally irrelevant. I have only once seen a spoke break in its thinnest section. Once. We purchased about 4000 spokes per month and built around 30 000 wheels over an 12-year period, all with an unlimited spoke life warrantee. Each wheel with a fault that could practically come back to our factory came back and each mode of breakage was analysed and recorded. The only spoke that broke in it's mid section was due to a stick being thrown into the bike's wheel in a hi-jack attempt. I still have the photos and the analysis of the break.
Thus a wheel with 1.8mm spokes will not last longer than a wheel with 1.5mm spokes. The latter lasts the longest under the same conditions. Of course I'm talking about shank diameter, not the 2mm at either ends.
