HGVs and cyclists

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shouldbeinbed

Rollin' along
Location
Manchester way
One thing that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread is the amount of cyclists that have near misses due to there own negligence??
How about this example, Take one cyclist, with the obligatory dark glasses, and bike computer/all singing and dancing phone,
add the ear buds playing there fav music. You have NO idea what is going on around you, you glance at the phone/BC, find that
small pothole and opps big wobble and a near miss. You don't post all the details on here as it was your fault and you would get slagged off for it.
Or you just nip down the inside and clip a wing mirror/scratch down the side of a car because you weren't really paying any attention due to all the gizmos being used.
Or the pram you just hit because you are on the phone or resetting garmin or Mp3 player. Add to that the nervous newcomer commuter and it's a recipe for disaster.
Nothing ever seems to get said about this side of the argument re road safety. Nothing gets said and reported because really nothing serious happened,
I hope no ones luck runs out.

So, yes I've had cars scratched, wing mirrors bent the wrong way. Cyclists leaning on the near-side side rails of the lorry I've been driving, guess it saved unclipping.
Seen grannies nearly get knocked over, mothers having to take that quick step back as the cyclist with the knee stuck out nearly KO's her toddler.

Cyclists are very vulnerable road uses but there is a lot they can do to help them selves just by being more aware of people/things around them.
Accidents will always happen though.

As for spending money to make cycling safer, it's a great idea. BUT re-routing vehicles so there are fewer left turns. more mirrors. jesus I'll spend
more time time looking at mirrors than looking where I'm going. Plus all mirrors do is create more blind spots, cameras I hear you cry, get real I'll be like
the cyclist in my example above, to busy looking inside the cab at gizzmos than looking what is outside.
You forgot to mention red light jumping or you'd have had the full bingo card

& this mythical lunatic on a bike still doesn't kill or injure even a tiny fraction of the people that big trucks do.

Go figure.
 

snorri

Legendary Member
One thing that I don't................................................he cab at gizzmos than looking what is outside.
So really nothing constructive to add to the debate?:sad:.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
One thing that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread is the amount of cyclists that have near misses due to there own negligence??
How about this example, Take one cyclist, with the obligatory dark glasses, and bike computer/all singing and dancing phone,
add the ear buds playing there fav music. You have NO idea what is going on around you, you glance at the phone/BC, find that
small pothole and opps big wobble and a near miss. You don't post all the details on here as it was your fault and you would get slagged off for it.
Or you just nip down the inside and clip a wing mirror/scratch down the side of a car because you weren't really paying any attention due to all the gizmos being used.
Or the pram you just hit because you are on the phone or resetting garmin or Mp3 player. Add to that the nervous newcomer commuter and it's a recipe for disaster.
Nothing ever seems to get said about this side of the argument re road safety. Nothing gets said and reported because really nothing serious happened,
I hope no ones luck runs out.

So, yes I've had cars scratched, wing mirrors bent the wrong way. Cyclists leaning on the near-side side rails of the lorry I've been driving, guess it saved unclipping.
Seen grannies nearly get knocked over, mothers having to take that quick step back as the cyclist with the knee stuck out nearly KO's her toddler.

Cyclists are very vulnerable road uses but there is a lot they can do to help them selves just by being more aware of people/things around them.
Accidents will always happen though.

As for spending money to make cycling safer, it's a great idea. BUT re-routing vehicles so there are fewer left turns. more mirrors. jesus I'll spend
more time time looking at mirrors than looking where I'm going. Plus all mirrors do is create more blind spots, cameras I hear you cry, get real I'll be like
the cyclist in my example above, to busy looking inside the cab at gizzmos than looking what is outside.
I'd start getting used to the idea, as well as being on CCTV whilst driving.
If your aware of your weaknesses whilst on the road, you'd expect to compensate for them. It us after all only self preservation and not the off loading onto other road users that should be done.
 
OP
OP
simongt

simongt

Guru
Location
Norwich
Cor, I really started something here eh - ?:wahhey:! Now just to add a little more fuel to the fire, :boxing:there are SOME cyclists who do themselves no favours by cycling in dull / dark coloured outfits. Yes, I know what some of you will say, 'why should I have to look like something from the Mardis Gras festival when I use a bike' but it's common sense; the brighter you are, the more likely you are to be seen in time. Basis logic. And DON'T get me started on decent lights - !:hyper:
 

classic33

Leg End Member
Cor, I really started something here eh - ?:wahhey:! Now just to add a little more fuel to the fire, :boxing:there are SOME cyclists who do themselves no favours by cycling in dull / dark coloured outfits. Yes, I know what some of you will say, 'why should I have to look like something from the Mardis Gras festival when I use a bike' but it's common sense; the brighter you are, the more likely you are to be seen in time. Basis logic. And DON'T get me started on decent lights - !:hyper:
Flawed logic there
Contrast works better than simply bright colours.
As for decent lights, its the work of five minutes to go round your vehicle and at the least make certain the lenses on your lights are clean.
You might even consider using the orange flashing ones every now and then. We're not mind readers.
 

shouldbeinbed

Rollin' along
Location
Manchester way
@simongt I deliberately wear dark clothing, it provides vivid contrast even in bright daylight for the Sam Browne belt I always have on when riding and wide yellow slap bands I wear on each arm as indicators.

Even though these slaps aren't factory fitted to me and not blindingly simply activated by a flick of a switch routinely in finger reach, I indicate a damn sight more consistently and frequently than ALMOST ALL motorised vehicles.
I also have pedal reflectors on every bike, even buying special platforms with them for my roadie SPD's my bikes all have front and rear reflectors, multiple lights front and rear, reflective sidewall tyres and 3M spoke straws. Yet I still get dumb barstewards in big vehicles, which have their own lights in addition to all of my efforts, passing too fast and too close.

Pro rata, big vehicles rank only behind rusty unliveried Transit vans as the road vehicles that scare me the most. And I'm not one for whining about close passes every ride.

Also, do you expect the same clothing apartheid to be applied to pedestrians crossing the road and people who may be getting in and out of vehicles parked on the road, if anything there will be less of an expectation of them being there than people travelling by bicycle and as such should be making more of an effort to mitigate for your self confessed optical failings.

I can only assume that your posting on this thread is (to be kind) mischievous.
 
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E
One thing that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread is the amount of cyclists that have near misses due to there own negligence??
How about this example, Take one cyclist, with the obligatory dark glasses, and bike computer/all singing and dancing phone,
add the ear buds playing there fav music. You have NO idea what is going on around you, you glance at the phone/BC, find that
small pothole and opps big wobble and a near miss. You don't post all the details on here as it was your fault and you would get slagged off for it.
Or you just nip down the inside and clip a wing mirror/scratch down the side of a car because you weren't really paying any attention due to all the gizmos being used.
Or the pram you just hit because you are on the phone or resetting garmin or Mp3 player. Add to that the nervous newcomer commuter and it's a recipe for disaster.
Nothing ever seems to get said about this side of the argument re road safety. Nothing gets said and reported because really nothing serious happened,
I hope no ones luck runs out.

So, yes I've had cars scratched, wing mirrors bent the wrong way. Cyclists leaning on the near-side side rails of the lorry I've been driving, guess it saved unclipping.
Seen grannies nearly get knocked over, mothers having to take that quick step back as the cyclist with the knee stuck out nearly KO's her toddler.

Cyclists are very vulnerable road uses but there is a lot they can do to help them selves just by being more aware of people/things around them.
Accidents will always happen though.

As for spending money to make cycling safer, it's a great idea. BUT re-routing vehicles so there are fewer left turns. more mirrors. jesus I'll spend
more time time looking at mirrors than looking where I'm going. Plus all mirrors do is create more blind spots, cameras I hear you cry, get real I'll be like
the cyclist in my example above, to busy looking inside the cab at gizzmos than looking what is outside.
sounds like it's too much for one driver and it needs 2 like an airplane.
 
Chris_K member: 44534 said:
One thing that I do't think has been mentioned in this thread is the amount of cyclists that have near misses due to there own negligence??
How about this example, Take one cyclist, with the obligatory dark glasses, and bike computer/all singing and dancing phone,
add the ear buds playing there fav music. You have NO idea what is going on around you, you glance at the phone/BC, find that
small pothole and opps big wobble and a near miss. You don't post all the details on here as it was your fault and you would get slagged off for it.
Or you just nip down the inside and clip a wing mirror/scratch down the side of a car because you weren't really paying any attention due to all the gizmos being used.
Or the pram you just hit because you are on the phone or resetting garmin or Mp3 player. Add to that the nervous newcomer commuter and it's a recipe for disaster.
Nothing ever seems to get said about this side of the argument re road safety. Nothing gets said and reported because really nothing serious happened,
I hope no ones luck runs out.

So, yes I've had cars scratched, wing mirrors bent the wrong way. Cyclists leaning on the near-side side rails of the lorry I've been driving, guess it saved unclipping.
Seen grannies nearly get knocked over, mothers having to take that quick step back as the cyclist with the knee stuck out nearly KO's her toddler.

Cyclists are very vulnerable road uses but there is a lot they can do to help them selves just by being more aware of people/things around them.
Accidents will always happen though.

As for spending money to make cycling safer, it's a great idea. BUT re-routing vehicles so there are fewer left turns. more mirrors. jesus I'll spend
more time time looking at mirrors than looking where I'm going. Plus all mirrors do is create more blind spots, cameras I hear you cry, get real I'll be like
the cyclist in my example above, to busy looking inside the cab at gizzmos than looking what is outside.

I would not advocate cycling with headphones, but you can still be aware of what's around you - you just need move your head.
Cor, I really started something here eh - ?:wahhey:! Now just to add a little more fuel to the fire, :boxing:there are SOME cyclists who do themselves no favours by cycling in dull / dark coloured outfits. Yes, I know what some of you will say, 'why should I have to look like something from the Mardis Gras festival when I use a bike' but it's common sense; the brighter you are, the more likely you are to be seen in time. Basis logic. And DON'T get me started on decent lights - !:hyper:

Being brighter is not proportionate to being seen if the third party is not looking.

it has to be said that i don't believe you are doing yourself any favours with this thread and your ill thought out opinions when what you refer to regarding hgvs and being seen is potentially upsetting to those who know someone that has been killed.
 
Cor, I really started something here eh - ?:wahhey:! Now just to add a little more fuel to the fire, :boxing:there are SOME cyclists who do themselves no favours by cycling in dull / dark coloured outfits. Yes, I know what some of you will say, 'why should I have to look like something from the Mardis Gras festival when I use a bike' but it's common sense; the brighter you are, the more likely you are to be seen in time. Basis logic. And DON'T get me started on decent lights - !:hyper:
Quick question. You park a car on the road. Is it your fault if someone crashes into it for not wrapping it in hi-viz and covering it in lights? Common sense innit.

I do wonder hiw much your insurance is after constantly crashing into dark parked cars.
 
@Chris_Kn

On my commute this morning, it was 1 for 1 on stupidity of drivers and cyclists.

First the cyclist:
Traffic slowing, for a delivery truck turning into a side street With an indicator on, just after a turn. I was 3 cars back, after the truck started to make its a turn, a cyclist came up the inside of everybody, and had to brake hard to miss the truck, then gesticulating to the driver.

Stupid, really stupid.

The driver:
Only about 10 minutes later, I was following a car that appeared either lost, ,or unfamiliar to the area, who was driving quite slowly and poorly positioned as if they was looking for something.

Stopped at the give way on the right hand side of the lane, then turned left from, but they sat at the giveway for a minute or so, looking around. And then pulled out directly infront of a cyclist, who luckily managed to stop. Car continued apparently unaware they had nearly took a cyclist off, I stayed behind the cyclist, as the car park I use was only about 100m away, overtaking was pointless. But the car ahead, pulled over and parked at the curb, less than 60m from the junction, meaning the cyclist they pulled out of, then had to go around their parked car.

Today, neither incident looked deliberate. But both the cyclist in the first incident, and the car driver in second, were extremely unaware of what was going on around them.

But, with the stupidity of cyclist 1, he was only endangering himself, whereas the driver in the 2nd, was endangering somebody totally innocent of their actions.

While in the first incident, a collision would have been another HGV left turn, and a cyclist incident to argue about it. There's no way the driver would be to blame. But it would have been another stat.

We can argue about stats, and fault all the time, cyclist in some situations may be able to do more to keep themselves safe from idiots. But as motor vehicle drivers, you have to be aware that when you oblivious to your surrounding, you're not endagering just yourself, but often an innocent party.

As a cyclist, you are primarily only endagering yourself. Yes we see incidents like the recent Blackpool one, and it is nasty, but they very, very, very rarely result in a fatality. How does it compare to impacts with vehicles?

As a motorcyclist for 11 years, I feel I have developed some very good defensive riding abilities. I have never been knocked off a motorcycle, or a bicycle. Nor have I been in a car accident in that time either. I agree some cyclists need to learn more about keeping themselves safe on the road, and what they can do to reduce the chances of idiots involving them.

So while I agree some cyclists can do more, their inaction only harms them, the inaction of drivers to do more to improve their driving harms others.
 
One thing that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread is the amount of cyclists that have near misses due to there own negligence??
How about this example, Take one cyclist, with the obligatory dark glasses, and bike computer/all singing and dancing phone,
add the ear buds playing there fav music. You have NO idea what is going on around you, you glance at the phone/BC, find that
small pothole and opps big wobble and a near miss. You don't post all the details on here as it was your fault and you would get slagged off for it.
Or you just nip down the inside and clip a wing mirror/scratch down the side of a car because you weren't really paying any attention due to all the gizmos being used.
Or the pram you just hit because you are on the phone or resetting garmin or Mp3 player. Add to that the nervous newcomer commuter and it's a recipe for disaster.
Nothing ever seems to get said about this side of the argument re road safety. Nothing gets said and reported because really nothing serious happened,
I hope no ones luck runs out.

So, yes I've had cars scratched, wing mirrors bent the wrong way. Cyclists leaning on the near-side side rails of the lorry I've been driving, guess it saved unclipping.
Seen grannies nearly get knocked over, mothers having to take that quick step back as the cyclist with the knee stuck out nearly KO's her toddler.

Cyclists are very vulnerable road uses but there is a lot they can do to help them selves just by being more aware of people/things around them.
Accidents will always happen though.

As for spending money to make cycling safer, it's a great idea. BUT re-routing vehicles so there are fewer left turns. more mirrors. jesus I'll spend
more time time looking at mirrors than looking where I'm going. Plus all mirrors do is create more blind spots, cameras I hear you cry, get real I'll be like
the cyclist in my example above, to busy looking inside the cab at gizzmos than looking what is outside.

Jesus farking wept.

You're one of a million other muppets who've got it into their heads that motor vehicle traffic is some kind of unstoppable force of nature and we vulnerable road users should bloody well be grateful that you let us use your roads. It's just tough luck if people make a mistake out there and get themselves squished. They knew the dangers!

If you can't operate your vehicle on the roads you shouldn't have a license. If there's something intrinsically dangerous about your vehicle - like for example you can't see out of it properly(!) - then it's nor fit for purpose and it shouldnt be on the road.

Our cities have becime toxic obnoxious environments for humans to exist in. Because they've been designed for the exclusive use of motorised vehicles. Things need to change, and especially attitudes like yours.
 

Chris_Kn

Regular
Location
Bolton
Jesus farking wept.

You're one of a million other muppets who've got it into their heads that motor vehicle traffic is some kind of unstoppable force of nature and we vulnerable road users should bloody well be grateful that you let us use your roads. It's just tough luck if people make a mistake out there and get themselves squished. They knew the dangers!

If you can't operate your vehicle on the roads you shouldn't have a license. If there's something intrinsically dangerous about your vehicle - like for example you can't see out of it properly(!) - then it's nor fit for purpose and it shouldnt be on the road.

Our cities have becime toxic obnoxious environments for humans to exist in. Because they've been designed for the exclusive use of motorised vehicles. Things need to change, and especially attitudes like yours.

Mickle I'll ignore being called a muppet for now at least, but all that will happen is. Pressure groups will push and push. something will get done but here will be a cost. See you can't have the cake and eat it in this world. In the case of cycling safety,

1/ Everyone will have to pass a test.
2/ All bikes will have to be MOT'd
3/ Cyclists will need a compulsory insurance
4/ All bikes will need some kind of registration number
5/ New rules will come on law to say what you can and can't do.
6/ Finally as a road user you will pay some kind of duty

It doesn't matter if the new system would be workable, it would just create problems for everyone..

But you will get the safer bike friendly HGV's and town centers.

Also go do some research and see how much money the haulage industry puts into the coffers of the treasury,
then go see how much cycling puts in. Money does seem to a have a lot of influence when it comes down to the
bottom line.

As for my attitude I just speak from experience @mickle I guess I went past 1,000,000 miles more than a few years ago.

Yes things need to change I don't disagree, yes there are lots of drivers that are just unaware of the danger they pose to cyclists
and also probably a % that don't care. All I did was not put forward a cycling biased opinion. You being the narrow minded person
you are couldn't see past that. It wasn't posted to score points or gain favour or make me feel good.

Chris..
 
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