How can Donhou charge £2300 for an off the shelf 853 frame?

[deptfordmarmoset]

I think we can safely say that a Donhou bike can generate a 240 post thread on cyclechat....

 

[ayceejay]

241 you mug.

 

[Citius]

Even the 853/953 ones?? Blimey.

I believe they are built at Ora Engineering, in Taiwan.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I believe they are built at Ora Engineering, in Taiwan.

Even the 853/953 ones?? Blimey.

sfaik all their production frames are made in Taiwan. (in the same factories as everyone else's) Some of the prototypes and special one offs like Vin Cox's and show bikes are built in UK. They had problems with the first batch of 853 frames not passing tests, I was told, and may even have lost money on the venture. Can't recall name of the company but the box clearly said made in Taiwan on it. Taiwan does quality, mass production and price, in spades.

But my understanding is they are jig built and robot welded and the only time a person touches 'em is to put the tubes in the jig, take the frame out after welding and then do the inevitable cold setting. Which even the best handbuilt frames need.

 

[Eurostar]

Thanks. I've been doing some digging too. Genesis is an 'own brand' of Madison Cycles, the distributor. I worked for them long ago. They have a clever trick of creating new brands and being a bit shy about the fact that they are not actually separate companies. You would never guess from the Rapha-like matey Genesis site that they are Madison http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/about Madison also created Kryptonite locks, Ridgeback MTBs and many other brands. It's a very profitable business model. Madison has grown enormously. Quite a few of the smaller brands here http://www.madison.co.uk/brands are actually just Madison.

I also found some great Rouleur articles which give some insight into Genesis: http://rouleur.cc/journal/bicycles/genesis-steel-part-one http://rouleur.cc/journal/bicycles/genesis-steel-–-part-two

The best way to get value from a Genesis bike or frame is to wait for a sale. Then you can be sure that a nice chunk of those hidden profit margins are going into your pocket. Here's an example - a 2014 853 frameset with cro mo forks and headset for £349 http://www.ukbikesdepot.com/m90b185..._soGIjg_szW2qdhWVT_4MnlpRFieGztELoaAvCz8P8HAQ

The bike trade is sometimes very opaque. When I visited Dave Yates on my '80s Condor 753 I discovered he had built it.

 

[dan_bo]

I think we can safely say that a Donhou bike can generate a 240 post thread on cyclechat....

It's true. They're still bibbling on about how much other people may or may not be spending on a bike frame.

 

[vickster]

It's true. They're still bibbling on about how much other people may or may not be spending on a bike frame.

That none of them seem intent on buying

 

[Eurostar]

The tyre-kicking:buying ratio for cyclists is traditionally stratospheric!

 

[bpsmith]

 

[screenman]

That none of them seem intent on buying

I have been told that you would be a mug to do that. I was going to buy a nice loaf of bread yesterday, instead I went for a cheaper one, after all they are all made from the same ingredients. Not sure why they taste different though.

 

[SteCenturion]

Not sure what you mean. What else would it be made from and why would that be relevant? Dave Yates charges half that price for an 853 frame.

Brian Rourke also.

Didn't he aslo win a Category Award at Bespoke Bicycle Show a couple of years back ?

Maybe why he feels he can charge a premium over other frame builders, or maybe he just values his work much higher than others.

Personally I would want custom/made to measure for that money & I also prefer the work of Swallow & Feather.

Rourke seem very good value for custom built frames.

 

[Eurostar]

Rourke and Yates are not half the price of Donhou. They may well be only 20% less. You need to take into account the Enve forks and Chris KIng headset and the complex paint effect on the Donhou downtube. If someone would like to do some accurate sums we might get a definitive answer.

With Donhou being newish he needs to spend a lot more on marketing than his rivals who have earned a reputation over decades. Plus Donhou has London overheads. I doubt he is laughing all the way to the bank.

If Donhou had to do lots of development and testing to get his rear disc mount sorted, he may be making no profit on these bikes yet. I probably shouldn't have started this thread!

 

[SteCenturion]

Reynolds' '4th best tubeset' - that doesn't scream 'special' to me, if I'm honest.

Even though I have liked this post, I do consider the 853 Pro to be one of the best, up there in the excellent category.

953 is probably the Special stuff along with Columbus SLX etc, not that I am any kind of afficionado of steel.

I do agree though that it does seem steeply priced for a none custom, i.e made to measure frameset, especially when compared to say Brian Rourke for example.

 

[outlash]

Even though I have liked this post, I do consider the 853 Pro to be one of the best, up there in the excellent category.

953 is probably the Special stuff along with Columbus SLX etc, not that I am any kind of afficionado of steel.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I probably shouldn't have started this thread!

I disagree.

The timing of the OP was spot on. The tone maybe wasn't. It has been a useful thread, and interesting in a knockabout kind of a way, and you've done some learning about Genesis which you've shared and recorded here which may be of benefit to others considering the brand who are not as well-informed as you now are.

And I can maybe start a thread about ETA sa and how the essence of a thing, that gives it its perceived value, has very little to do with the tubeset, or watch movement, at its heart.