glasgowcyclist
Charming but somewhat feckless
- Location
- Scotland
"I can't help it if a cyclist falls over"
- Thread starter glenn forger
- Start date
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U
User6179
Guest
If only there was some sort of device fitted in a car to slow it down when approaching vulnerable road users , maybe something similar to a brake on bicycle.
Someone is basically dead because someone else didn't slow down , 2 seconds of a person life verses the rest of the other persons life.
Someone is basically dead because someone else didn't slow down , 2 seconds of a person life verses the rest of the other persons life.
Spinney
Bimbleur extraordinaire
- Location
- Back up north
I've emailed that link to my MP. And put it on my facebook page.
Neither guaranteed to change anything, but let's keep plugging the message...
Boris Bajic
Guest
I am explicit in not blaming the victim. I am explicit in blaming the motorist. You quote me selectively.
The press reports that this was her first bike ride, not her first ride on that bike. She is referred to in several articles as a novice. I did not know her and do not know whether this is accurate. From descriptions of the incident from all parties, she appears to have been displaying the hesitancy of a novice. My point (had you quoted me in full) was to say that motorists should expect there to be novice cyclists on the road.
As a father who taught all his children to ride, I am familiar with being nudged from behind by an unsteady novice when I brake or slow unexpectedly. That's why I quickly learned to place my children ahead of me. I do not make this point in a critical way. It's just an observation. I do not blame the woman who was killed. The fault lies with the motorist.
This is a thread about a dreadful incident, not another invitation to go all 'attack dog' on any poster you have issues with. But I forgive you.
I probably am an idiot, but not for the reasons you cite.
OP
OP
glenn forger
Guest
where?
jefmcg
Guru
Oh, she would have had a plan for that: brake heavily and move left. Sure, she might have killed the two cyclists she was overtaking, but should would have tearfully explained in court how she had no choice, with her daughter's life at risk.
This must be why drivers often overtake cyclists on blind bends: they can get out of the way with only cosmetic damage to their car if required.
I always take an aggressive primary around this bend if there's a car behind me, it's so common for them to overtake when they can't see what's coming that a cyclist is inevitably going to be crushed against that wall.
deptfordmarmoset
Full time tea drinker
- Location
- Armonmy Way
This....
...suggests to me that Mr Pontin may have caught Miss Perinova's front wheel as he went for the only gap available ahead of him. This would have the effect of throwing her off balance and possibly into the line of the oncoming car. In a race it would probably go down as a ''racing incident'' but in the context of the fatality, it was the driver's recklessness that forced the emergency manoeuvre. It's a possibility extrapolated from the reported accounts but, crucially, it doesn't bring Miss Perinova's competence into question. Whereas, to Mrs Measure's lifelong shame, she does not accept blame for an accident caused by her own asininity.
...suggests to me that Mr Pontin may have caught Miss Perinova's front wheel as he went for the only gap available ahead of him. This would have the effect of throwing her off balance and possibly into the line of the oncoming car. In a race it would probably go down as a ''racing incident'' but in the context of the fatality, it was the driver's recklessness that forced the emergency manoeuvre. It's a possibility extrapolated from the reported accounts but, crucially, it doesn't bring Miss Perinova's competence into question. Whereas, to Mrs Measure's lifelong shame, she does not accept blame for an accident caused by her own asininity.
OP
OP
glenn forger
Guest
I hope whatever Measures bought at the garden centre was worth a young woman's life.
" to see Mr Pontin and his girlfriend suddenly coming towards her as she rounded the curve in the road"
i gave a safety talk at work to my colleagues the other day. There was 70 of them. I told them i wanted to teach them what i taught cyclists about "avoidability", ie we tell cyclists, if they can't see round the van or round the corner, not to presume it is clear and that whoever is on the other side also can't see them. It went something like this...
"10% of you are very good drivers, you pay attention all the time. 10% of you are bad aggressive drivers, you don't care about other road users, you speed regularly, you risk running red lights, you are on your mobile and if someone is in your way you get round them whatever the consequences. The rest of you... Well. [this is the point i know they expected me to say "average"]... Well... you're just not very good. You're distracted, you are fiddling with your sat nav, or your radio, you're thinking about work, or the row you just had with your wife, or frustrated coz you need to drop the kids off before getting to work, and because of this you take small risks all the time, the odd risky overtake, the odd amber light, speed a little, but because nothing untoward happens to you, you carry on and you don't change your behaviour until something does".
you could hear a pin drop.
I then went on to say "there is a road that leads to my village that has very tight bends. Since i have lived here i have seen a dozen serious crashes (one person died) on this road, 4 of these crashes were on this corner. Last week, i went round this corner in my car, very slow. The reason i was going slow is because of my experience of being on a bike, and watching drivers take risky moves all the time, i no longer take these risks. When i rounded the blind bend in 2nd gear (so at a speed of no more than 20mph) there was a HGV on my side of the road and, because i was going slowly i was able to pull up on to the verge so the lorry could pass and i have no doubt in my mind that, knowing the lorry missed me by 6 inches, if that had been Joe Bloggs driving through the village, the story would have been very different! So next time you come to a bend in the road, or a curve, or you want to overtake something, think about your line of sight... what can you see? Because if you can't see way past where you want to be, then don't presume that it's clear, or the situation won't change by the time you get there, because you might find there is a HGV, car or a cyclist when you get there. Your perception of how dangerous that risk was will be small if its a cyclist, but if its a HGV your perception will be a lot different as you will be the one in danger, not the other person.
CLEARLY THIS WOMAN, FROM HER OWN ADMISSION, DID NOT HAVE A CLEAR LINE OF SIGHT WHEN SHE DECIDED TO DRIVE AROUND THIS CURVE AT A SPEED SHE COULDN'T STOP AT. MAKES ME SO MAD
Interestingly my little talk went down very well, considering i told them all they "just weren't very good drivers". I've had six drivers come up to me and tell me that they have changed their behaviour, and my boss got loads of good feedback from the others. So hopefully, 70 drivers are now thinking more clearly than they were last week. can't guarantee how long it will last for though.
i gave a safety talk at work to my colleagues the other day. There was 70 of them. I told them i wanted to teach them what i taught cyclists about "avoidability", ie we tell cyclists, if they can't see round the van or round the corner, not to presume it is clear and that whoever is on the other side also can't see them. It went something like this...
"10% of you are very good drivers, you pay attention all the time. 10% of you are bad aggressive drivers, you don't care about other road users, you speed regularly, you risk running red lights, you are on your mobile and if someone is in your way you get round them whatever the consequences. The rest of you... Well. [this is the point i know they expected me to say "average"]... Well... you're just not very good. You're distracted, you are fiddling with your sat nav, or your radio, you're thinking about work, or the row you just had with your wife, or frustrated coz you need to drop the kids off before getting to work, and because of this you take small risks all the time, the odd risky overtake, the odd amber light, speed a little, but because nothing untoward happens to you, you carry on and you don't change your behaviour until something does".
you could hear a pin drop.
I then went on to say "there is a road that leads to my village that has very tight bends. Since i have lived here i have seen a dozen serious crashes (one person died) on this road, 4 of these crashes were on this corner. Last week, i went round this corner in my car, very slow. The reason i was going slow is because of my experience of being on a bike, and watching drivers take risky moves all the time, i no longer take these risks. When i rounded the blind bend in 2nd gear (so at a speed of no more than 20mph) there was a HGV on my side of the road and, because i was going slowly i was able to pull up on to the verge so the lorry could pass and i have no doubt in my mind that, knowing the lorry missed me by 6 inches, if that had been Joe Bloggs driving through the village, the story would have been very different! So next time you come to a bend in the road, or a curve, or you want to overtake something, think about your line of sight... what can you see? Because if you can't see way past where you want to be, then don't presume that it's clear, or the situation won't change by the time you get there, because you might find there is a HGV, car or a cyclist when you get there. Your perception of how dangerous that risk was will be small if its a cyclist, but if its a HGV your perception will be a lot different as you will be the one in danger, not the other person.
CLEARLY THIS WOMAN, FROM HER OWN ADMISSION, DID NOT HAVE A CLEAR LINE OF SIGHT WHEN SHE DECIDED TO DRIVE AROUND THIS CURVE AT A SPEED SHE COULDN'T STOP AT. MAKES ME SO MAD
Interestingly my little talk went down very well, considering i told them all they "just weren't very good drivers". I've had six drivers come up to me and tell me that they have changed their behaviour, and my boss got loads of good feedback from the others. So hopefully, 70 drivers are now thinking more clearly than they were last week. can't guarantee how long it will last for though.
Yep. you've just knocked it on the head and summed it up. shame you are not on the Prosecution team.
Only a few million to go then!
I'm not a miracle worker!!! LOL
Gravity Aided
Legendary Member
- Location
- Land of Lincoln
Someone actually brought this up to me at work today. In the US. I guess news does travel.
Origamist
Legendary Member
Quite. It is also possible Mr Pontin would have braked before Miss Perinova (as he would most likely have seen the car first) and she could have clipped his back wheel. However, if Mr Pontin had not taken evasive action (swerving, braking or both) he could have been hit by the driver. What choice did he have when confronted with Dr Measures who had idiotically chosen to overtake two cyclists, riding two abreast, on a right hand bend without ensuring the road ahead was clear? In this awful tragedy, Dr Measures was at fault for overtaking in an unsafe manner.
Why was Dr Measures "surprised" when she suddenly saw two cyclists approaching in single file - because the bend in the road limited her visibility when she attempted the pass? Did she not look properly?
Does anyone seriously think that Miss Perinova would have died if Dr Measures had not been hurtling perilously close to her at up to 50mph?
I can only hope the jury were presented with persuasive extenuating circumstances that those of us reading the press reports do not have access to. Otherwise, the NG verdict is hard to fathom.
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GrasB
Veteran
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
Unfortunately I have a feeling there didn't need to:
Actually in a straw pole today 6 out of 7 of our admin staff (all non-cycling car owners) thought that it was completely the cyclists fault for not keeping their bike upright.
This strengthens my view that motoring offences should not be convicted by jury but by trained judges.
