I have a chest infection ... probably

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Just wanted to add, this is a really interesting discussion, and I'm glad it's got so in-depth. I don't often come across people who can have a thoughtful and educated discussion on asthma and infections, rather than just telling you what drugs the doctor has told them to take.

My understanding of the avoiding dairy whilst ill, was more to do with the fact that consumption of dairy causes the body to produce more mucus and that last thing you really need it more crap in your lungs (or stomach) when you are struggling with your asthma and an infection as apposed to the "eastern origin" issues you also mention. One that I am already aware of, and there is no asian background in our family - my mother's side has been traced back to 1066 and earlier and other than some Italian blood at one point, we are entirely British in origin as would be my real father's background. My gran's family being from Wales originally, and me being the only "blight" on that record of Welsh or English, by being born in Scotland! (hence why I saw British, not English).

I forget exactly when, sometime between 1994-1998, I picked up bronchitis which would not clear. I had already worked out that if I stayed away from dairy when ill my asthma was less of a problem and my illness cleared up more quickly. My GP also confirmed that she wanted me to stay away from dairy and NSAIDs during the illness but that I could return to eating 'normally' afterwards. It was more than 8 weeks before I shifted that bout of bronchitis and once I had been given the all clear, I went back to a 'normal' food cycle. I would usually consume around 2 - 3 pints of milk a day (I can drink very few other drinks because of something called a chronic permanent geographic tongue - don't google it if you are about to eat, mine is uncontrollable and permanent, so think bite your tongue and then put lemon juice on it - that is how most food & drink is for me) I ended up in A&E unable to control my asthma. Subsequent GP visits and the likes concluded that it was cow's milk that was the issue (fine with other cow's products though) and I ended up on goat's milk for many years. Over the next decade I was fine with any cooked cow's milk products except cow's milk itself and had few issues until my asthma deteriorated badly about 6 or 7 years ago. Thankfully even as a child I have always been fit if not healthy (I was checked for cystic fibrosis longe before I was checked for asthma, I have/had a half sister on my real father's side who has/had it).
Once my asthma became uncontrollable and the continued chest infections took their toll, all cow's dairy had to be ruled out. Finally about 4 years ago I had to go over to soya milk completely, and minimise dairy in my diet. Recently my intolerance has moved to being an allergy to cow's dairy and intolerance to other dairy. Last summer I had a really bad experience which has pushed me towards a completely dairy free diet - I was on a medical training course (ironic I know) and the biscuits were made on site at the hotel, day 1,2, & 3 I had them without issues albeit hesitantly on day 1 (trust thing more than anything else), day 4 were a new batch but I did not think anything of it and ate one without thought... 2nd mouthful and I knew I was in trouble - mild analphalatic shock... Now I am considerably more careful. I know I can cope with the symptoms but it is horrible and knocks me for six for weeks.

My asthma as a child went undiagnosed until I was 12 years old. Then I was the only kid in my year with it and the 'understanding' was exercise was bad for it, so I was not allowed to participate in lots of things, some which I quite happily avoided, other's I missed badly and would ignore not being allowed to... my school mostly let me get on with it, except running, but clamped down again after the A&E incident on the cross country run. But I am told that at 12 years old when I was told I could have to give up my hiking, I told the GP I would give up my asthma first. I continued being active, just restricted by my asthma (rig life so we climbed in the afternoon when I had less issues than in the morning) for all of my teenage years and it was not until I was 18 that I went onto steroid inhalers - when I finally met someone else with one and realised I did not have to struggle with my asthma. Unfortuantley my asthma was already at a stage that in less than 2 years I had gone from 1 inhaler to 3 inhalers and the 250mcg Becotide. Diet & exercise have to play a part in managing my asthma becuase there is little left that will control my asthma (meds are in 5 categories and I am on everything in cat 4 that I can have to control my asthma, I do not want to end up in cat 5). My asthma attacks are controlled by not having them. If I have a bad one, little is going to work without A&E intervention. Even as little as 5 days with no exercise will throw my asthma and give me issues again when I re-start exercise, so I have to stay constantly active. 3 days seems to be as much as I can go without active exercise! Which is probably why cycling around the world (or trying to) was one of the best things I could do!

OK - out for a walk now to stretch a tight calf muscle and then a bike ride this afternoon.
 

mrandmrspoves

Middle aged bald git.
Location
Narfuk
The only thing that really sets my asthma off badly is a chest infection. I've had 2 in the last 30 years, one that put me in hospital over the millenium, and the other when I was 13, which also put me in hospital.

That's why I've chosen to take antibiotics at the first sign of a chest infection. The consequences of missing it are liable to be quite serious...



....And I certainly wouldn't advocate that anyone with severe life threatening asthma ignores their doctor's advice about anti-biotics .....or steroids for that matter.


As for Aspirin, most asthmatics are not sensitive to it and can take it safely - but a small % cannot tolerate it.
 

mrandmrspoves

Middle aged bald git.
Location
Narfuk
My thrush occurs a lot lower than my throat!

As I say, science says it doesn't work - but experience of many says it does. As they're readily available and cheap, there's little to lose in trying them......and I actually like them.
Asthmatics are very prone to thrush in the throat and mouth because it is a side effect of inhaled steroids.
 

Andrew_P

In between here and there
When I was on metronidazole for really bad jaw infection I had terrible yeast side effects, The only way I got rid of it was using an over the counter tablet for thrush. Now if I ever take antibiotics I always take one of these half way through and probiotic tablets. They never bother me now.
 
....And I certainly wouldn't advocate that anyone with severe life threatening asthma ignores their doctor's advice about anti-biotics .....or steroids for that matter.
As for Aspirin, most asthmatics are not sensitive to it and can take it safely - but a small % cannot tolerate it.

the only issue being those who are sensitive to it don't actually know until they come off it for a few months and then try it again. For me that was done at the request of my GP who was trying to deal with constant infections & sore throats caused by my wisdom teeth coming through (though at the time we did not know).

As for steroids - ever dr will tell you the same thing. they are a mixed blessing and keeping the dose as low as possible to keep your asthma in check is a better in the long run. Google Addison's disease or follow my link - secondary Addison's is what I am now facing directly because of steriod use to control my asthma and it is no laughing matter.
 

mrandmrspoves

Middle aged bald git.
Location
Narfuk
the only issue being those who are sensitive to it don't actually know until they come off it for a few months and then try it again. For me that was done at the request of my GP who was trying to deal with constant infections & sore throats caused by my wisdom teeth coming through (though at the time we did not know).

As for steroids - ever dr will tell you the same thing. they are a mixed blessing and keeping the dose as low as possible to keep your asthma in check is a better in the long run. Google Addison's disease or follow my link - secondary Addison's is what I am now facing directly because of steriod use to control my asthma and it is no laughing matter.


Indeed some asthmatics may have an Aspirin sensitivity and not know it ( estimated at about 10% of asthmatics are Aspirin sensitive).....and if you are allergic to Aspirin it is likely that you will also be allergic to other Non Steroidal Drugs (NSAID's) such as Ibuprofen and Diclofenac. Usually people who are Aspirin sensitive will find that they experience symptoms quite quickly after exposure - certainly within a few hours, and often quite rapidly.

.My view ( and the established medical view) regarding steroids is that for life threatening conditions such as severe asthma long term side effects and the less severe short time side effects are a fair price to pay for the opportunity of developing long term symptoms..... sudden death at an early age often being the other option.
For severe acute asthma steroid doses should be " heavy and hard" - once symptoms are controlled the lowest dose that controls symptoms will reduce the risk of long term side effects. In long term management the aim is to avoid oral steroids wherever possible and this can often be achieved by increasing the dose of inhaled steroids.
 
Indeed some asthmatics may have an Aspirin sensitivity and not know it ( estimated at about 10% of asthmatics are Aspirin sensitive).....and if you are allergic to Aspirin it is likely that you will also be allergic to other Non Steroidal Drugs (NSAID's) such as Ibuprofen and Diclofenac. Usually people who are Aspirin sensitive will find that they experience symptoms quite quickly after exposure - certainly within a few hours, and often quite rapidly.

.My view ( and the established medical view) regarding steroids is that for life threatening conditions such as severe asthma long term side effects and the less severe short time side effects are a fair price to pay for the opportunity of developing long term symptoms..... sudden death at an early age often being the other option.
For severe acute asthma steroid doses should be " heavy and hard" - once symptoms are controlled the lowest dose that controls symptoms will reduce the risk of long term side effects. In long term management the aim is to avoid oral steroids wherever possible and this can often be achieved by increasing the dose of inhaled steroids.

Regretfully it is the long term inhaled steroids that are beleived to be the cause of the reduced adreanal gland function in me. I try hard to stay off oral steroids but know that my asthma can (& will probably) kill me unless I am killed by a vehicle on the roads first. I also can not have NSAID's which can be a pain in the rear and can take no cough medicines or anything like that whatsoever. Even some medications are now causing issues, for some mad reason singulair contains lactose - if I have it as singulair I'm OK the benefits outweigh the intolerance issues which cause endless nighttime asthma attacks. If I have montelukast (generic version) it is a gamble - sometimes I am OK, sometimes I am not; I can only assume that the tablet filler lactose whatever has been manufactured/processed differently.

I agree the the side effects of the asthma meds are not worth worrying about. If I don't take all of them then I am dead its as simple as that (I currently take 7 sets of meds for my asthma on a daily basis, I was on 9 before I went off on a 12 month tour). However, issues relating to overuse of steroids (inhaled or oral) for asthma control is also a major factor that should be considered and any asthmatic should be aware of these, something I was not and now suffer the consequences and it is not good news at all. One major problem with addison's is that it is a relatively unknown condition and I got exceptionally ill before it was finally diagnosed. I lost over 22kg in weight in 4-5 months before it was 'found' and it was only because my gynae consultant knew of it that I was sent for tests.
 
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OP
lulubel

lulubel

Über Member
Location
Malaga, Spain
A lot of the problem here is that the "patient" is kept in ignorance as much as possible by a lot of professionals. I don't know why this is. There are lots of reasons I can guess at, some of which are obviously well-intentioned, others less so. This is the major reason why I will stay away from hospitals, and the loss of control that goes with them, at almost any cost.

A sample conversation from my last hospital admission:

(Nurse comes over with 6 small, round tablets in a glass for me to take. It's pretty obvious what they are.)
Me: What are those?
Nurse: You need to take these. They'll make you feel better.
Me: They're prednisolone, aren't they?
Nurse: Just take them for me. They're going to help you to breathe.
Me: If they're prednisolone, I've already had 60mg today. Are you sure you want to give me any more?
(Nurse walks away without speaking, and I don't see the tablets again.)

I'm not sure what 90mg of prednisolone in less than 12 hours would have done to me, but I know my GP had hesitated before telling me to take another 30mg when the first lot of tablets I took had no effect.

I think the most important thing any of us can do is educate ourselves. If we don't make an effort to understand what we're being told to put in our bodies, there aren't many people out there who are going to volunteer the information. (For example, I was aware that taking high doses of inhaled steroids couldn't be good for you, but it's only recently that I've learned about its relationship with reduced adrenal function.)
 
The last time I was in hospital the nursing staff were giving me my oral steroids at night along with a sleeping tablet because I could not sleep. No amount of persuasion could get the 30mg dose moved to when it should have been - in the morning. Only once I was out of hospital after 8 days was I able to move the dose to mornings and get some sleep again!

lulubel - you should read this http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Corticosteroid-(drugs)/Pages/Sideeffects.aspx it is quite illuminating and probably explains why my new GP wants a glucose tolerance test doing on me after yet another borderline blood glucose test - it has hovered around that mark for nearly a decade now and I have a very healthy diet according to my nutrionist.

Other potential side effects include mood swings, osteoporosis. You won't find adrenal gland issues mentioned in the article. I shall have to try to dig further to find that one, if I can at all. To date all I have to go on is my endocrinologist and what I have gleamed from medical staff who have encountered the condition. It is quite rare from what I understand.
 

Andrew_Culture

Internet Marketing bod
When I was on metronidazole for really bad jaw infection I had terrible yeast side effects, The only way I got rid of it was using an over the counter tablet for thrush. Now if I ever take antibiotics I always take one of these half way through and probiotic tablets. They never bother me now.

Glad it's not just me! Just to be really really clear here, and I never thought I'd say this on a forum, but, I have a penis.
 
Glad it's not just me! Just to be really really clear here, and I never thought I'd say this on a forum, but, I have a penis.
I think us girls know that! :whistle: but despite my avatar I am constantly being mistaken for someone with one as well! I have a feeling that you, lulubel & I are all of the same generation - possibly even school year... if I recall from various other forum postings... however provided your real name is not Stephen I can breath more easily!

--------------------------------
Edit: A more quick witted reply would have been - I understand that there has been a pretty permanent cure for that afflication for several thousand years now!^_^ End of Edit.
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Back on topic: thrush is a constant problem here, and not just oral thrush either unfortuantly. It has been a constant problem for decades now because of the inhalers, rinsing my mouth out after taking my inhalers - particularly the last one at night, does help to some degree as does avoiding anything sugary a couple of hours before bed, but I am rarely without, made worse by the permanent geographic tongue (think psorasis in the mouth - closed condition) which makes me even more prone. At one point I had an inhaler to try to treat the tongue and that was confusing as anything because that one had to be sprayed directly onto the tongue...
 
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OP
lulubel

lulubel

Über Member
Location
Malaga, Spain
The last time I was in hospital the nursing staff were giving me my oral steroids at night along with a sleeping tablet because I could not sleep. No amount of persuasion could get the 30mg dose moved to when it should have been - in the morning. Only once I was out of hospital after 8 days was I able to move the dose to mornings and get some sleep again!

They refused me sleeping tablets when I complained I couldn't sleep. They also refused to put the sloping bit at the top of the bed down so I could lie flat (I wasn't strong enough to do it myself). I resorted to crawling down to the foot end of my bed with one of my pillows so I could curl up there and get some sleep.

They also refused me Anadin Extra for the pounding headache I was suffering from because I was so stressed, but gave me cocodamol instead. (I understand codeine based painkillers aren't intended to be used for headaches because they are actually one of its side effects.) I was told, "You're asthmatic. You're allergic to aspirin."

lulubel - you should read this http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Corticosteroid-(drugs)/Pages/Sideeffects.aspx it is quite illuminating and probably explains why my new GP wants a glucose tolerance test doing on me after yet another borderline blood glucose test - it has hovered around that mark for nearly a decade now and I have a very healthy diet according to my nutrionist.

Other potential side effects include mood swings, osteoporosis. You won't find adrenal gland issues mentioned in the article. I shall have to try to dig further to find that one, if I can at all. To date all I have to go on is my endocrinologist and what I have gleamed from medical staff who have encountered the condition. It is quite rare from what I understand.

Interesting. I had a lot of the side effects of oral steroids when I was on them a lot as a child. Our GP had me on them almost constantly, just starting another reducing dose as soon as the first one finished and my asthma flared up again. (He was under huge stress, apparently, and was eventually struck off when it was found out he'd been self medicating from the practice drug supply.) I've still got stretch marks from the steroids, mostly on my thighs, and the first thing my specialist did when I finally got referred, was to put me on a diet because of all the weight I'd gained - as well as finally putting me on a steroid inhaler.

I found one interesting study on inhaled steroids and adrenal gland issues when I searched after you first mentioned it. It may have been this one, but I'm not sure because I don't have time to read it properly now, and I went through a lot of stuff at the time.
 
Interesting. I had a lot of the side effects of oral steroids when I was on them a lot as a child. Our GP had me on them almost constantly, just starting another reducing dose as soon as the first one finished and my asthma flared up again. (He was under huge stress, apparently, and was eventually struck off when it was found out he'd been self medicating from the practice drug supply.) I've still got stretch marks from the steroids, mostly on my thighs, and the first thing my specialist did when I finally got referred, was to put me on a diet because of all the weight I'd gained - as well as finally putting me on a steroid inhaler.

I found one interesting study on inhaled steroids and adrenal gland issues when I searched after you first mentioned it. It may have been this one, but I'm not sure because I don't have time to read it properly now, and I went through a lot of stuff at the time.

It makes for some interesting reading that article does. My 'result's for AS 75nmol/L before the test and 226nmol/L after the test which is pretty much half of what was expected. It could be worth asking to be tested, if only for the reasurance value - it is simply a series of blood tests, over the space of 30 mins. for me first thing in the morning because they wanted my body under as much stress as possible by missing my normal asthma meds, so I had an 8am appointment. For me & my asthma the saving grace over all of these years has been my lung capacity which is significantly larger than it should be. At its best it was 620ml for a peak flow in my 20's. Now it holds around 550ml which means I have that little extra to play with when it comes to breathing though I generally do have to point out to medical staff who comment that 300ml if fine, that that is only 1/2 capacity for me...

Life is also complicated by a pituitary adenoma which plays havoc with my hormones and causes constant headaches, but it is interesting to read that some of the related issues in the article include hormonal issues relating to the pituitary gland & AS. I shall read it in more detail tomorrow when my OH is at work.
 

Andrew_Culture

Internet Marketing bod
I think us girls know that! :whistle: but despite my avatar I am constantly being mistaken for someone with one as well! I have a feeling that you, lulubel & I are all of the same generation - possibly even school year... if I recall from various other forum postings... however provided your real name is not Stephen I can breath more easily!

--------------------------------
Edit: A more quick witted reply would have been - I understand that there has been a pretty permanent cure for that afflication for several thousand years now!^_^ End of Edit.
----------------------------------

Back on topic: thrush is a constant problem here, and not just oral thrush either unfortuantly. It has been a constant problem for decades now because of the inhalers, rinsing my mouth out after taking my inhalers - particularly the last one at night, does help to some degree as does avoiding anything sugary a couple of hours before bed, but I am rarely without, made worse by the permanent geographic tongue (think psorasis in the mouth - closed condition) which makes me even more prone. At one point I had an inhaler to try to treat the tongue and that was confusing as anything because that one had to be sprayed directly onto the tongue...

My middle name is Steven, but my first name really is Andrew :smile:
 
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