mythste
Guru
- Location
- Manchester
I really did try to bring this to a nice conclusion a few posts ago! 
In praise of titanium - and Spa Cycles
- Thread starter Pale Rider
- Start date
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mythste
Guru
- Location
- Manchester
The OP seems happy with the different viewpoints being discussed, so why not just put the handbags down and stick whoever you don't like on ignore...there are a few of you in this thread within my esteemed but not that exclusive ignore club...Means I get the sensible discussion and not the bitching
It's a crying shame because there has been some pretty sweet discussion that's really made me think!
vickster
Squire
Indeed
potsy
Rambler
- Location
- My Armchair
Maybe we need a type of restraining order, certain posters not allowed to post on the same threads as each other?
Sadly they seem to follow each other around ready to start the next argument
Sadly they seem to follow each other around ready to start the next argument
rb58
Enigma
- Location
- Bexley, Kent
Well, I've read this thread and I'm still not selling my Enigma.
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
Any grade of steel pipe.
Any lay-up of carbon.
Any wood, even balsa, if you like
Any titanium alloy.
The point is, to dampen vibration you have to have compliance (flexibility) bigger than the amplitude of the vibration and none of these materials can offer it.
I'll make the point with an example. Let's say the vibration has an amplitude of 1mm. That means that the little bumps move more one mm up and one mm down. For the material to dampen that vibration it has to flex in the longitudinal direction by at least one mm. None of the materials listed will do that.
Another way to work with vibrations is to put a damper on it. This is typically a heavy weight of sorts with lots of inertia which requires more energy to overcome than the vibration can provide.
Another way to work with vibrations is to put an extension to the end, perhaps with a damper. Think of a tuning fork. We don't like the vibration so we put a blob of heavy rubber at the end or, we weld a long piece of metal to the end. This way the node of the vibration is changed, the resonance has changed and voila, the vibration is gone. When you are sending a shock pulse along a tube, the material makes very little difference, other than the obvious material change like by going to a piece of wet sponge.
EltonFrog
Legendary Member
The OP seems happy with the different viewpoints being discussed, so why not just put the handbags down and stick whoever you don't like on ignore...there are a few of you in this thread within my esteemed but not that exclusive ignore club...
How do you know they are posting then?
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
Jowwy, all materials flex under load. There is no such thing as a perfectly rigid material. Titanium is not special in that regard.
If you like the fact that a material can be made thinner, yet still strong enough to do the job, as well as provide a lightweight structure, aluminium is your first port of call. It can be extruded, drawn, welded, hydroformed and bent into the required shape. Aluminium bikes, for a given strength, are lighter than a titanium bike.
I said titanium is half as strong as steel and also half the weight of steel. Do you see the dilemma? To make a steel or titanium bike of the same "Strength" requires the same weight in materials. This is of course an approximation but one that holds true for bicycle frames.
I am not sure what golf club manufacturers are supposed to have discovered. You make it sound like they know something that no-one else knows. But like you say, you are not bothered to define your claim so I can't really refute a non-claim.
vickster
Squire
Cos I can see there is ignored content, and posts quoting ignored posts make little sense or the flow makes no sense, so have to sneak a peek at ignored content...and then wish I hadn't!!How do you know they are posting then?
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
Here you go. http://www.zambikeszambia.com/
I'll list the benefits.
Organic
Biodegradeable.
Low carbon footprint to the point of being a carbon sink.
Talking point.
Rust proof.
Can be planted and will grow a bike tree.
EltonFrog
Legendary Member
Ah right, I didn't know that. I have so many on my ignore list sometimes its not worth reading threads they make no sense at all some of them.
vickster
Squire
Indeed. I posted something last week and about the first 10 responses were from ignored members...I was feeling unloved!
and later annoyed by the responses 
OP
OP
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
My local bike shop acquired a bamboo frame for a reason I cannot recall.
Dreadful thing which weighed a ton because of all the lumps of metal used to hold it together.
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
Not quite, any maneuver exceeding 1G is an aerobatic maneuver. For regular civilian flight, forces won't exceed 1G.
@Yellow Saddle iirc, on average Titanium is the equivalent strength of steel but at half the weight (comparing to low-grade steel alloys)
To compare specifics, a commonly used 531 tubing for bicycles is around 800MPa (UTS) at around 8g/cm^3 compared to 3AL titanium used on many cycles at around 900MPa but only around 4.5g/cm^3
So it's clear to see that Titanium is almost half the weight for the same strength as steel used in bicycles.
HOWEVER, comparing this to something common like 6061 Aluminium 325MPa at 2.7g/cm^3 you can get a material as strong as steel at 3/4 of the weight.
If you pay a bit more for 7005 aluminium, then you can get around 400MPa at pretty much the same density. You get the same strength of Titanium with around 20% more weight, on a 1.5kg titanium frame, you'll only be looking to save 250g by choosing Titanium.
Raw titanium is heavier than raw aluminium, but 3AL titanium alloy is lighter than both 531 steel tube, and 6061/7005 aluminium, and stronger at the same time.
