Origamist
Legendary Member
Is cycling getting safer in Britain ?
http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2010/02/is-cycling-getting-safer-in-britain.html
http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2010/02/is-cycling-getting-safer-in-britain.html
Is cycling getting safer in Britain ?
- Thread starter Origamist
- Start date
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summerdays
Cycling in the sun
- Location
- Bristol
Hmm ... I disagree with him on this blog ... I'm sure I'm seeing more cyclists and this is in the winter. As for children cycling ... that would take me a bit of time to work out ... but I know if I go back 4 years when my youngest started school, in winter he was the only one cycling and in summer the shed had perhaps 10 bikes, whereas now it bumps along with some keen primary kids cycling throughout the winter and full shed in the summer. There is also an increase in the number of parents that I see on bikes at school - I used to feel the oddity especially when I wore my hi-vis coat. Now I see quite a few parents dropping off their children by bike.
So I disagree with his statement that only the fanatical are left cycling on Britain's roads. As to whether there has been a change in safety of cyclists I'm not sure - how the best way to collect the statistics are. Lots of accidents are rolled into general traffic accidents, and many are unreported.
So I disagree with his statement that only the fanatical are left cycling on Britain's roads. As to whether there has been a change in safety of cyclists I'm not sure - how the best way to collect the statistics are. Lots of accidents are rolled into general traffic accidents, and many are unreported.
Treating the UK as one homogeneous transport statistic is nonsense.
The figures confuse very different trends. For instance nationally bus travel is decreasing but in London it is increasing. I believe the same is true of cycling. There certainly seems to be more cyclists about since I stopped commuting into London whereas they have almost disappeared from my home town where it was the principle method of transportation when I was at school.
So perhaps London is indeed safer for cycling because of critical mass (and the low average motor vehicle speeds). Whereas out of town it is much more dangerous - well certainly perceived as such by me ...
The figures confuse very different trends. For instance nationally bus travel is decreasing but in London it is increasing. I believe the same is true of cycling. There certainly seems to be more cyclists about since I stopped commuting into London whereas they have almost disappeared from my home town where it was the principle method of transportation when I was at school.
So perhaps London is indeed safer for cycling because of critical mass (and the low average motor vehicle speeds). Whereas out of town it is much more dangerous - well certainly perceived as such by me ...
Chamfus Flange
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Woking, Surrey
I've been cycle commuting since 2003 and there is a noticable increase in cycle number during the winter. Summer numbers is a little more difficult as there are so many of them, but still think this is on the increase.
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I know the stats for round here are getting better. Whether you believe them or attach a particular reason if up to you.
I think cycling is increasing round here slowly and solidly but I'm more cautious than other people. All to often you get someone going somewhere they don't that often and they say (real life examples) I saw four cyclists cycling down this road and they didn't know each other, it shows a massive boom in cycling. Well yes it's good but I happen to see cyclists often on that road. This spring I've noticed slightly more cyclists in nearly all areas of the city with more seemingly riding on pavements.
It's all too easy for people to get carried away with booms because often cyclists especially including "the fanatics" are concentrated in very small areas of a city, sometimes on literally a street by street level.
I think cycling is increasing round here slowly and solidly but I'm more cautious than other people. All to often you get someone going somewhere they don't that often and they say (real life examples) I saw four cyclists cycling down this road and they didn't know each other, it shows a massive boom in cycling. Well yes it's good but I happen to see cyclists often on that road. This spring I've noticed slightly more cyclists in nearly all areas of the city with more seemingly riding on pavements.
It's all too easy for people to get carried away with booms because often cyclists especially including "the fanatics" are concentrated in very small areas of a city, sometimes on literally a street by street level.
Barbelier
Senior Member
Is it just me, or did anyone else find it strange that an article titled "Is cycling getting safer in Britain?" should have a picture of 6 cyclists with not a single helmet amongst them? 
Not being negative nor do I want to start a big discussion about the merits of helmets, but my kids aren't even allowed onto a bike without a helmet.
As to cycling getting safer, what's your starting pointing or criteria? Compared to when I cycled as a kid in the stoneage, the traffic now is horrendous and many drivers far less considerate to cyclists, increasing the risks enormously. On the other hand high viz clothing, helmets, cycle lanes are all a positive developments.
Not being negative nor do I want to start a big discussion about the merits of helmets, but my kids aren't even allowed onto a bike without a helmet.
As to cycling getting safer, what's your starting pointing or criteria? Compared to when I cycled as a kid in the stoneage, the traffic now is horrendous and many drivers far less considerate to cyclists, increasing the risks enormously. On the other hand high viz clothing, helmets, cycle lanes are all a positive developments.
Barbelier said:Is it just me, or did anyone else find it strange that an article titled "Is cycling getting safer in Britain?" should have a picture of 6 cyclists with not a single helmet amongst them?
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No, It implies that cycling is a safe activity that anyone can do without specialist cycling equipment.
Some of us choose to wear a helmet (I do), but I think the picture in the article is completely acceptable.
OP
OP
Origamist
Legendary Member
User said:
Strange - you should travel more, Reg! Have you never had a British expat bore you to death in some seedy bar in a far flung corner of the old empire drinking crappy lager and regurtitating headlines from the Daily Mail website on how shite it is to live in the UK?
Barbelier said:
Best not to start the discussion then ;-)
I'll echo what was said above: it's daft to consider all of the UK as one area for cycling statistics. I'm 23, and I live in London. I don't know anyone my age in London, Oxford or Cambridge who owns a car. A few of them cycle, most use public transport. All the ones using public transport say they ought to buy a bike (etc).
I don't know anyone my age living elsewhere (mostly Chester, Leicester, Birmingham and Leeds) who doesn't own a car.
OP
OP
Origamist
Legendary Member
User said:I travel widely - including the Netherlands...
It is clear this chap hasn't been back for a while and simply thinks he can quote statistics in a rather odd way to make his point.
Perhaps he's trying to scare the 'not that often' cyclists into thinking that Holland is the only place you can really cycle safely...
...and he just happens to be a cycle tour guide.
You're right to flag up Hembrow's undeniable conflict of interests, but there's little doubt that cycling in the Netherlands is safer than the UK (for a raft of reasons) and we can certainly learn from the Dutch with regard to increasing modal share and lowering casualty rates...
You still have not answered my question about seedy bars and expats
I'm afraid David Hembrow is just wrong. End of. As Stuart says, you have to break it down in to regions or towns, which is precisely what the CTC has done. Cycling in London is booming, but it's static across almost all of the rest of the UK (if memory serves Glasgow is the other big growth area). And, as cycling in London has increased the number of casualties has remained static. And Hembrow's speculation about fanatics is woeful - he simply hasn't clocked the bombdodger generation perched on floppy saddles and pushing rusty metal
Having said that, you can make a crude statistical link, but it would take a fearsome amount of analysis, probably on a road-by-road basis, to establish beyond doubt that certain circumstances led to a reduction in risk - and most of those circumstances might not be geographical. They might, for example, be related to economic activity or varieties thereof.....
The question, as Lenin put it, is what is to be done? And here we ignore the obvious at our peril. Theorising from national statistics, or even regional statistics doesn't help anybody, and the CTC's Safety in Numbers campaign, while it might convince politicians that the expansion of cycling would not neccessarily increase casualties, it's pretty much devoid of analysis rooted in events. Look at casualties and find common features, or sets of common features. And address those common features.
Having said that, you can make a crude statistical link, but it would take a fearsome amount of analysis, probably on a road-by-road basis, to establish beyond doubt that certain circumstances led to a reduction in risk - and most of those circumstances might not be geographical. They might, for example, be related to economic activity or varieties thereof.....
The question, as Lenin put it, is what is to be done? And here we ignore the obvious at our peril. Theorising from national statistics, or even regional statistics doesn't help anybody, and the CTC's Safety in Numbers campaign, while it might convince politicians that the expansion of cycling would not neccessarily increase casualties, it's pretty much devoid of analysis rooted in events. Look at casualties and find common features, or sets of common features. And address those common features.
snorri
Legendary Member
- Location
- East coast, up a bit.
This is so true.StuartG said:
I don't think cycling is getting safer in my part of Britain, there are now some roads in my locality that I prefer not to cycle on. I suspect there are fewer utility cyclists too. There are so few cyclists that any cycle accident statistics would be meaningless.
snorri said:This is so true.
I don't think cycling is getting safer in my part of Britain, there are now some roads in my locality that I prefer not to cycle on. I suspect there are fewer utility cyclists too. There are so few cyclists that any cycle accident statistics would be meaningless.
Even talking about one city is fairly meaningless to an extent. It's just that nobody wants to talk about "cycling neighbourhoods" and non versions as that sounds absurd. On the other hand people do surveys and find out that in non-cycling areas things resiliently carrying on.
