Is signalling a dying art?

[dodd82]

Just re-read this:

Arfcollins said: ↑

Maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly. What should I do if the second exit is at 200 degrees? Is that straight on or turning right?​

I'm making the point, to which you appear to have agreed, that it is not always easy to see whether an exit would be defined as straight on or turning right. My opinion is that the default position should be to assume it is a right turn and indicate accordingly. It is only a small but logical step to assume this for any exit which is not the first. I suspect it will only confuse a small number of motorists, but will provide valuable information to the others.

If you, Glasgowcyclist and Sheffield Tiger think that it is a safe manoeuvre to turn off a roundabout with another vehicle to your immediate left then I truly hope that you don't do it when that vehicle contains an idiot who is turning right.

My opinion is that the default position should be to assume it is a right turn and indicate accordingly

Firstly - you've completely changed stance. This conversation was about someone going straight on - not your own personal roundabout.

Secondly - if you assume it's a right turn then you should be in the right lane. So you're still wrong.

Why do people like you have such a problem with admitting you got something wrong?

 

[dodd82]

When are there roundabouts with only two vehicles on them?

You are looking at one car easing off for one car. Easy, straightforward.

Let's say it's actually busy, rush hour. There are cars plural in all lanes - there are a stream of cars using the left lane. So you seem to be suggesting that the motorcyclist stop in the middle of the roundabout until they are all gone? Despite the motorcyclist using a marked, correct lane.


As for wondering if I do, yes, I do regularly. I also continue around a roundabout with cars to my right when in the correct, marked lane. And sometimes get cut up and honked at, sworn at etc for my pleasure from ill-advised people who don't understand the road markings but are so set in their convictions.

Should I then lead by example and continue to use the lanes correctly, or should I join the sheep who ignore multiple lanes, merge-in-turn systems and use one lane which in the case of one roundabout on my route, leads to backed up traffic across a major roundabout, which traffic planners have attempted to resolve through sensible road design but which people ignore because they can't cope with the concept of more than one lane for a given direction?

As for your earlier post about "if you think that is safe then I hope...etc", well, we've all heard that one. "If you think it is safe to ride a bicycle on a modern road with fast cars and big trucks...." Same argument. Same nonsense.

This is hilarious isn't it Sheffield Tiger? Though a little bit concerning that people like this drive on our roads. I wonder whether old Arf has driven outside of his road at home before?

Try travelling up the A1 in rush hour and see how you get on moving from the right lane into the left lane, on the roundabout, everytime you want to go straight on.

There's a stream of traffic in both lanes going straight on.

Those going right, signal right and stay in the right lane.

Those going straight on don't signal until they have passed the first exit, and then begin signalling left.

No one signals right when they're in the left lane, because that would be incorrect as well as stupid.

 

[campbellab]

Maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly. What should I do if the second exit is at 200 degrees? Is that straight on or turning right?

Physically 200 degrees or signage has it at 200 degrees? Dual lane or single? How many exits beforehand? Any road markings? etc etc

 

[Arfcollins]

Physically 200 degrees or signage has it at 200 degrees? Dual lane or single? How many exits beforehand? Any road markings? etc etc

Probably best to build your own picture as I didn't have any particular location in mind. The question was really to suggest that the Highway Code can't describe every situation, so what is straight on or is turning right is a matter of opinion. And this then defines how to indicate.

 

[Miquel In De Rain]

Not really,im quite good with the nescafe shake.

 

[dodd82]

Probably best to build your own picture as I didn't have any particular location in mind. The question was really to suggest that the Highway Code can't describe every situation, so what is straight on or is turning right is a matter of opinion. And this then defines how to indicate.

You still don't get it, do you?

The Highway Code tells you that if you deem it to be a right turn (and so you signal right), you should be in the right lane.

But this is just you trying to change tack. You originally stated that you signal right to let the traffic waiting to enter your roundabout on your left know that you're intending to stay on the roundabout.

This is the wrong thing to do, and it's confusing for other motorists - making it dangerous. You shouldn't be doing it.

 

[Cycling Dan]

I try to signal as much as possible. It's obviously good practise. If I need my hand to break, or control the bike, then no. Which is why it is a "should" in the Highway Code, not a "must". Control of the bike is more important IMO.

Going around roundabouts is a pain. Hard to control the bike through a turn with only one hand on the bar.

 

[Arfcollins]

You still don't get it, do you?

The Highway Code tells you that if you deem it to be a right turn (and so you signal right), you should be in the right lane.

But this is just you trying to change tack. You originally stated that you signal right to let the traffic waiting to enter your roundabout on your left know that you're intending to stay on the roundabout.

This is the wrong thing to do, and it's confusing for other motorists - making it dangerous. You shouldn't be doing it.

Let me spell it out then for this particular roundabout. It has one lane. The second exit is at 220 degrees from the entry. Do you deem that to be a right turn?

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

Probably best to build your own picture as I didn't have any particular location in mind.

Let me spell it out then for this particular roundabout.

Que?

 

[dodd82]

Let me spell it out then for this particular roundabout. It has one lane. The second exit is at 220 degrees from the entry. Do you deem that to be a right turn?

Do I need to quote some of your earlier comments, or would you just like to acknowledge that you're now trying to change your stance to avoid admitting that you were wrong?

 

[dodd82]

Que?

This is getting a bit embarrassing!

 

[RedRider]

Come on, lads. You've been going around and around the same roundabout again and again for days on end. At the end of the day it's just a roundabout so forget the signalling, just turn off and get on home!

 

[Arfcollins]

Do I need to quote some of your earlier comments, or would you just like to acknowledge that you're now trying to change your stance to avoid admitting that you were wrong?

Don't you want to answer my question? I'm interested to know whether you think that is a right turn or not.

 

[dodd82]

Arfcollins

Why are you interested? Because it moves the topic away from the many incorrect things you've said on this thread?

I've already answered your question - you have to interpret whether you think it's a right turn based on your knowledge of the highway code and the signage.

That doesn't change the fact that you 'signalling to tell the car waiting to join the roundabout that you're staying on the roundabout' is incorrect, and stupid in many respects.

You seem to have a real issue with just admitting that you got it wrong. Bit childish really.

 

[Arfcollins]

Arfcollins

Why are you interested? Because it moves the topic away from the many incorrect things you've said on this thread?

I've already answered your question - you have to interpret whether you think it's a right turn based on your knowledge of the highway code and the signage.

That doesn't change the fact that you 'signalling to tell the car waiting to join the roundabout that you're staying on the roundabout' is incorrect, and stupid in many respects.

You seem to have a real issue with just admitting that you got it wrong. Bit childish really.

Sorry for the delay, it's been a busy week.

Arfcollins
Why are you interested? Because it moves the topic away from the many incorrect things you've said on this thread?

Not at all, I just wanted to be sure of what you are saying, which is that it is valid for someone to interpret 220 degrees as a right turn, and accordingly signal right until the turn, and it is also valid to interpret it as being straight on and so give no signal until the left indication at the exit. Two different behaviours from the same situation both of which you say are correct. You, therefore, should have no reason to criticise either driver for their indication if you interprete the roundabout differently.

What you have still failed to grasp is the value of a right indication on roundabouts, even if it doesn't match your interpretation of the highway code. I can give an example, which is not unique, of a local roundabout where there have been several accidents caused by vehicles leaving the roundabout from the right hand lane into the right lane of the exit, cutting across a vehicle in the left lane that was leaving the roundabout by the following exit. I'm having to guess here as I haven't been able to ask the offending drivers, but I suspect that driver 1 thought that driver 2 was going to leave into lane 1 of the same exit. If driver 2 had been signalling right as he approached exit 1 the accident probably wouldn't happen. So the question for you in this circumstance is: which is better, making a signal that is not recommended by the highway code or having an accident?

Another example is on that same roundabout, and between the same 2 exits many drivers indicate left before exit 1 but leave at exit 2. There are some drivers entering from exit 1 that might assume that the driver on the roundabout is precisely following the signalling recommendation of the highway code and so will believe that they can safely enter the roundabout in front of the car that is exitting. The question for you here is would it be safer for the driver on the roundabout to be indicating right prior to exit 1, or would this be stupid as you have previously stated.

I accept what you said previously about roads such as the A1 in the rush hour where 2 lanes of traffic are leaving a roundabout on a major route, and in cases like that it wouldn't be appropriate for all traffic to squeeze into the left lane to exit.

You seem to have a real issue with just admitting that you got it wrong. Bit childish really.

No, not really, A lot of my driving habits were provided when I went on a defensive driving course many years ago. The instructors were experienced advanced drivers and ex-police drivers, so I value their advice more than yours as I suspect you are inexperienced by comparison.