Is signalling a dying art?

[Arfcollins]

Agree to disagree?

Your own link says that you're wrong.

Your signal is inappropriate and not the right course of action. You are confusing other road users and, as the motorcyclist explains above, potentially being hazardous.

The motorcyclist shouldn't be thinking of leaving a roundabout with a vehicle in the lane immediately left of him. I wouldn't try that in a car never mind on a bike. He should already have moved into the left lane prior to indicating for the exit. He creates his own hazard.

Unfortunately, there's too many people that cannot allow themselves to be corrected these days.

Please excuse my lack of humility. I will try to do better.

This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of you deciding to carry on doing something despite it being the wrong thing to do.

You are suggesting that indicating right in the circumstances I describe is forbidden which it clearly isn't. By the way, you have already stated that interpreting the Highway Code is open to opinion, when you said I need to decide whether a 220 degree exit is straight on or turning right.

is really no different to hanging back while you work out what someone is doing who doesn't indicate

Except why would you hang back? There's no indication that the driver to your left intends to move into the right lane or continue around the roundabout.

You are assuming in that case that they are going straight on, and therefore you can also go straight on using the right hand lane. Is that what you think you might do in that circumstance?

Going back to my post, do you think that there is any value, as an entering vehicle, to see a car indicating right as it approaches your exit, showing that pulling out in front of it would be foolish because that driver is showing you that he is continuing on the roundabout?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

The motorcyclist shouldn't be thinking of leaving a roundabout with a vehicle in the lane immediately left of him. I wouldn't try that in a car never mind on a bike. He should already have moved into the left lane prior to indicating for the exit. He creates his own hazard.

You should pay more attention the the links you provide.

GC

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

The motorcyclist shouldn't be thinking of leaving a roundabout with a vehicle in the lane immediately left of him. I wouldn't try that in a car never mind on a bike. He should already have moved into the left lane prior to indicating for the exit. He creates his own hazard.

Not even on the many, many roundabouts which have multiple lanes for going straight ahead?

So you are going straight on from the nearside lane, to exit 2nd exit nearside lane, the M/C is going straight on from the centre or offside lane to exit 2nd exit offside lane - both of you are in the correct lane but you are signalling to turn right. The M/C is doing nothing wrong at all but cannot make progress because you seem to be signalling an intent to cut actoss the path of the M/C

 

[Arfcollins]

You should pay more attention the the links you provide.

View attachment 13706


GC

I don't see 2 vehicles leaving the roundabout side by side. Are you saying that you would leave a roundabout in the right hand lane when there is a vehicle to your left that is not indicating?

 

[Arfcollins]

Not even on the many, many roundabouts which have multiple lanes for going straight ahead?

So you are going straight on from the nearside lane, to exit 2nd exit nearside lane, the M/C is going straight on from the centre or offside lane to exit 2nd exit offside lane - both of you are in the correct lane but you are signalling to turn right. The M/C is doing nothing wrong at all but cannot make progress because you seem to be signalling an intent to cut actoss the path of the M/C

The motorist on the left may have made an error in selecting that lane. It happens, and it's something we have all done at some time in an area we are unfamiliar with. So he may indicate right to get to the exit he wants. But he may not, so you have to assume when you leave in the right hand lane that he has read the Highway Code. I wouldn't take that risk.

 

[dodd82]

The motorcyclist shouldn't be thinking of leaving a roundabout with a vehicle in the lane immediately left of him. I wouldn't try that in a car never mind on a bike. He should already have moved into the left lane prior to indicating for the exit. He creates his own hazard.


Please excuse my lack of humility. I will try to do better.


You are suggesting that indicating right in the circumstances I describe is forbidden which it clearly isn't. By the way, you have already stated that interpreting the Highway Code is open to opinion, when you said I need to decide whether a 220 degree exit is straight on or turning right.


You are assuming in that case that they are going straight on, and therefore you can also go straight on using the right hand lane. Is that what you think you might do in that circumstance?

Going back to my post, do you think that there is any value, as an entering vehicle, to see a car indicating right as it approaches your exit, showing that pulling out in front of it would be foolish because that driver is showing you that he is continuing on the roundabout?

Firstly - there are many roundabouts where both lanes can be used to go straight on, and indeed should be used in that way. Suggesting that everyone who wants to go straight on should move into the left lane is ludicrous, because it would create congestion and is completely against recommended practice and road markings.

So yes, a vehicle is perfectly entitled to leave the roundabout into the right hand lane with a vehicle to it's left that isn't signalling. Of course, some awareness needs to be shown in case that person is inexplicably in the left lane, turning right with no signal.

I did not suggest that what you're doing is forbidden. I told you it's an incorrect use of your indicators, which it is. I also told you it is confusing and therefore dangerous, which it is.

Going back to your post, no I don't think there's any value whatsoever. Are you suggesting the car is likely to pull out in front of you because you're not signalling?

That is a baffling perspective.

There's no escaping the hard fact - you are using your indicator incorrectly.

 

[dodd82]

There are now three people trying to explain why what you're doing is wrong and inappropriate to other road users.

At what point do you sit back and think 'fair enough, I may have made a mistake here'?

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

The motorist on the left may have made an error in selecting that lane. It happens, and it's something we have all done at some time in an area we are unfamiliar with. So he may indicate right to get to the exit he wants. But he may not, so you have to assume when you leave in the right hand lane that he has read the Highway Code. I wouldn't take that risk.

My point exactly
When you are signalling you appear to be in the wrong lane and intending to continue around the roundabout to the next exit.

So you are preventing the correct flow of traffic by your unclear, non-standard signalling - causing totally unnecessary confusion and distraction to other road users which in turn could lead to a collision

Let's say the motorcycle sees your signal and brakes to avoid colliding with you, on the assumption that your "I intend to move out to the right or turn right" signal actually means what it is defined as. Someone else entering the roundabout makes the judgement that the motorcycle will have passed and accellerates onto the roundabout, can't see your unusual signalling as it is on the opposite side of the vehicle, making a final check to the right as they do so, and then broadsides the motorcycle that has unexpectedly slowed or stopped in their path due to avoiding your expected path

Yes, the car entering was at fault, but meanwhile you exit the roundabout with your lights blinking away like Blackpool Illuminations, shaking your head at "other people" yet none of the carnage would have occured if it were not for your signals that do not follow any recognised standard

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I don't see 2 vehicles leaving the roundabout side by side. Are you saying that you would leave a roundabout in the right hand lane when there is a vehicle to your left that is not indicating?

The diagram clearly shows that it is perfectly acceptable to leave the roundabout from lane 2, continuing into the exit road in lane 2.
It's therefore wrong of you to insist that "He should already have moved into the left lane prior to indicating for the exit."

Given that you should signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want' your instruction would have the motorcycle performing a very strange manouvre of entering the roundabout in L2, then changing to L1 at some point between exits 1 and 2 before indicating to leave at exit 3.



GC

 

[dodd82]

you have already stated that interpreting the Highway Code is open to opinion, when you said I need to decide whether a 220 degree exit is straight on or turning right.

Just re-read this.

It's open to opinion as to what lane you should be in. If you think you're turning right and so you're signalling right, you should also be in the right lane.

So that's rather irrelevant to this whole debate.

 

[Arfcollins]

you have already stated that interpreting the Highway Code is open to opinion, when you said I need to decide whether a 220 degree exit is straight on or turning right.

Just re-read this.

It's open to opinion as to what lane you should be in. If you think you're turning right and so you're signalling right, you should also be in the right lane.

So that's rather irrelevant to this whole debate.

Just re-read this:

Arfcollins said: ↑

Maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly. What should I do if the second exit is at 200 degrees? Is that straight on or turning right?​

I guess you need to decide whether you feel the exit is 'to the right' or not.

I'm making the point, to which you appear to have agreed, that it is not always easy to see whether an exit would be defined as straight on or turning right. My opinion is that the default position should be to assume it is a right turn and indicate accordingly. It is only a small but logical step to assume this for any exit which is not the first. I suspect it will only confuse a small number of motorists, but will provide valuable information to the others.

If you, Glasgowcyclist and Sheffield Tiger think that it is a safe manoeuvre to turn off a roundabout with another vehicle to your immediate left then I truly hope that you don't do it when that vehicle contains an idiot who is turning right.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Just re-read this:

Arfcollins said: ↑


If you, Glasgowcyclist and Sheffield Tiger think that it is a safe manoeuvre to turn off a roundabout with another vehicle to your immediate left...

Why not address the point I made rather than the one you think I made?


GC

 

[Arfcollins]

The diagram clearly shows that it is perfectly acceptable to leave the roundabout from lane 2, continuing into the exit road in lane 2.
It's therefore wrong of you to insist that "He should already have moved into the left lane prior to indicating for the exit."

Given that you should signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want' your instruction would have the motorcycle performing a very strange manouvre of entering the roundabout in L2, then changing to L1 at some point between exits 1 and 2 before indicating to leave at exit 3.



GC

Are you saying you would exit the roundabout in the right lane with a vehicle on your immediate left? Your previous post with the diagram suggests that this is what you mean. If there is no other vehicle then clearly you can use whatever lane you want to. If there is a vehicle on the left why would slowing so you can change lanes behind them be a strange manoeuvre? Do you believe that there is no chance of that vehicle continuing around the roundabout and wiping the motorcyclist out?

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

Are you saying you would exit the roundabout in the right lane with a vehicle on your immediate left? Your previous post with the diagram suggests that this is what you mean. If there is no other vehicle then clearly you can use whatever lane you want to. If there is a vehicle on the left why would slowing so you can change lanes behind them be a strange manoeuvre? Do you believe that there is no chance of that vehicle continuing around the roundabout and wiping the motorcyclist out?

When are there roundabouts with only two vehicles on them?

You are looking at one car easing off for one car. Easy, straightforward.

Let's say it's actually busy, rush hour. There are cars plural in all lanes - there are a stream of cars using the left lane. So you seem to be suggesting that the motorcyclist stop in the middle of the roundabout until they are all gone? Despite the motorcyclist using a marked, correct lane.


As for wondering if I do, yes, I do regularly. I also continue around a roundabout with cars to my right when in the correct, marked lane. And sometimes get cut up and honked at, sworn at etc for my pleasure from ill-advised people who don't understand the road markings but are so set in their convictions.

Should I then lead by example and continue to use the lanes correctly, or should I join the sheep who ignore multiple lanes, merge-in-turn systems and use one lane which in the case of one roundabout on my route, leads to backed up traffic across a major roundabout, which traffic planners have attempted to resolve through sensible road design but which people ignore because they can't cope with the concept of more than one lane for a given direction?

As for your earlier post about "if you think that is safe then I hope...etc", well, we've all heard that one. "If you think it is safe to ride a bicycle on a modern road with fast cars and big trucks...." Same argument. Same nonsense.

 

[totallyfixed]

By and large a roundabout is just an elongated crossroads i.e with gaps between the turnings. I find the most dangerous thing about them is the one where you are waiting to enter the roundabout and the vehicle already on it is indicating left as though to come off at your turning but carries on round to the next one, I see this so often and I believe it is the one occasion [there might be others but I'm tired and can't be bothered] when it would actually be safer not to indicate.
PS bmw drivers are lovely intelligent people, we treat our servants very well, watch out for the newer vauxhalls though