It's on days like these.....

[Brandane]

which all goes to show that none of those, nor a car as Red rider said are needed

Granted; as long as you only want to survive, rather than live.

 

[theclaud]

I see the reinforcements have arrived.
Kerndog may be a newbie to the forum, but so what? Do we know how long he has been cycling? Possibly longer than some of the long standing members on here who have made him so welcome . As far as I can see he is making perfectly valid points which are being shot down by the aggressive debating methods of the cycle fascists rather than by any reasonable counter arguments.

I have been around here for over 3 years now so I think I am entitled to voice an opinion on some of the membership. There does seem to be a small clique of regulars (some of whom are so regular I don't know how they ever have time to get on a bike) whose manner of debating is abrasive, aggressive, arrogant, bullying, selfish and downright hostile to anyone who doesn't eat, sleep, and breathe bicycles. How welcoming is that to new members?

I would think that the vast majority of members on here have interests, work, and social needs which are made possible by the use of a motor car.

Ah, the tired old "clique" attack. Y'know, some of us actually ride bicycles together as a result of this forum. How sweet is that! Nothing stopping you and Kerndog going out for a nice drive. I'm afraid I don't buy the faux-victim thing. It's what happens when people step in with both feet, and then realize they are out of their depth. Cue enflouncement, or Extended Victimhood Charade. It's the interweb, and people are going to question what you write - toughen up, peeps!

 

[RedRider]

I see the reinforcements have arrived.
Kerndog may be a newbie to the forum, but so what? Do we know how long he has been cycling? Possibly longer than some of the long standing members on here who have made him so welcome . As far as I can see he is making perfectly valid points which are being shot down by the aggressive debating methods of the cycle fascists rather than by any reasonable counter arguments.

I have been around here for over 3 years now so I think I am entitled to voice an opinion on some of the membership. There does seem to be a small clique of regulars (some of whom are so regular I don't know how they ever have time to get on a bike) whose manner of debating is abrasive, aggressive, arrogant, bullying, selfish and downright hostile to anyone who doesn't eat, sleep, and breathe bicycles. How welcoming is that to new members?

I would think that the vast majority of members on here have interests, work, and social needs which are made possible by the use of a motor car.

I'm not judging anyone's choices here, but life can be designed around the bicycle (and yes!) even the horse just as around the car.

Anyway, all this horse-talk made me think of heroin. Like the car (or bike etc), choosing to take it can become addictive.

 

[mcshroom]

Granted; as long as you only want to survive, rather than live.

I seem to remember Sheffield \Tiger managed to live perfectly well without any supermarkets and by using a bike.

Cars, like many things are a choice. I choose to have and drive one because I feel it improves my quality of life, but that doesn't make me need it. Approximately a third of all households in the UK have no car at all, are none of them living without this theoretical 'need'? I don't see any reason for having to justify my choice or blame others/life for the choice I have made on an internet forum either.

Outside of each individuals personal choice, you can also look at the wider social impacts of peoples' choices to use cars. One main one is the reduction in the frequency and coverage of public transport options as people choose to drive instead, removing the choice of using such public transport for those who either choose not to or are physically unable to drive. Also the death of the High Street and the rise of Out of Town shopping centres is another example of people's choice to drive shaping the society we live in to encourage the same choice.

Of course one thing that has been raised here is that driving allows people to travel further to work. Think about it the other way round though. How many companies have consolidated into large out-of-town premises that have cheaper rents, using the subsidy of their employees paying for the privilege of going to work for them?

 

[RedRider]

 

[Brandane]

Ah, the tired old "clique" attack. Y'know, some of us actually ride bicycles together as a result of this forum. How sweet is that! Nothing stopping you and Kerndog going out for a nice drive. I'm afraid I don't buy the faux-victim thing. It's what happens when people step in with both feet, and then realize they are out of their depth. Cue enflouncement, or Extended Victimhood Charade. It's the interweb, and people are going to question what you write - toughen up, peeps!

Ah, the tired old "it's the interweb" statement. So are you saying you are no more than a keyboard warrior? Personally I wouldn't post anything on here that I would be afraid to say in the pub. Similarly, I don't normally spend time on forums with people who I wouldn't spend time with in a pub. On this occasion though I must admit I am finding it all quite amusing. I'm actually quite impressed that some of the normally silent majority have stepped up to voice their opinion in the face of adversity from the usual suspects .

 

[Brandane]

I seem to remember Sheffield \Tiger managed to live perfectly well without any supermarkets and by using a bike.

Cars, like many things are a choice. I choose to have and drive one because I feel it improves my quality of life, but that doesn't make me need it. Approximately a third of all households in the UK have no car at all, are none of them living without this theoretical 'need'? I don't see any reason for having to justify my choice or blame others/life for the choice I have made on an internet forum either.

Outside of each individuals personal choice, you can also look at the wider social impacts of peoples' choices to use cars. One main one is the reduction in the frequency and coverage of public transport options as people choose to drive instead, removing the choice of using such public transport for those who either choose not to or are physically unable to drive. Also the death of the High Street and the rise of Out of Town shopping centres is another example of people's choice to drive shaping the society we live in to encourage the same choice.

Of course one thing that has been raised here is that driving allows people to travel further to work. Think about it the other way round though. How many companies have consolidated into large out-of-town premises that have cheaper rents, using the subsidy of their employees paying for the privilege of going to work for them?

A well put together and sensible response to the point being debated; could you perhaps teach some of the others how to do it?

Approximately a third of all households in the UK have no car at all, are none of them living without this theoretical 'need'?

I sincerely wish that I was among that one third. It gives me no pleasure to pay my hard earned cash straight to the treasury in the form of fuel duty + VAT, VED etc.. I do try and use my car as little as possible purely for reasons of economy. I am now down to about 5k miles per year, rather than the 30k at my peak in the mid 90s..

In my present circumstances, I could quite easily survive AND live without a car. However in previous jobs I have had to travel, and I do mean HAD to travel as quite simply there was no local work to be had. Public transport wasn't an option (7am starts on a Saturday and Sunday? Even during the week it was a load of hassle). A car was the cheaper and most convenient option. Cycling, as in post #1, just not an option in MY circumstances. Moving house - we've already covered that one too.

As previously stated I am keeping the car for now, as I am hoping to find a better paying job in the near future. Chances are that it won't be local. If it is, fine, I will make my decision then. The original point of this thread was simply to make the case that some people do have a genuine need for a car due to their circumstances.

 

[Brandane]

Strangely enough, it seemed to me like it was the other way around. We reasoned, but Brandane and Kerndog got all angry and insulting. Oh well.

Is that the Royal "we"? As in, the site bully boys (and girls).

I've got angry, have I? I've got nothing to get angry about. I've put forward a perfectly sensible, reasoned explanation why some people need a car to maintain a reasonable quality of life. I also stated that I appreciate why others might manage perfectly well without one. I can see both sides, so it is only the anti-car brigade who are getting all uppity and angry. I like cars and bikes, so no problem here, thanks.

If you are insulted by being called bullies/fascists/Taliban, then stop behaving like them.

 

[snorri]

i have wasted enough time with this futile argument, and I will exit the debate.

It would appear his account has been hacked, three posts have appeared in the name of kerndog since he exited.

 

[Tim Hall]

He's employing the Teasing Dummy-Flouncette Manoeuvre. However, in my experience it's usually followed by a Straight Flounce With Misdirected Parthian.

For that you'd definitely need to Choose Horse.

 

[oldfatfool]

........................when skies are blue and fields are green
I look around and think about what might have been
and then I hear sweet music float around my head
as I recall the many things we left unsaid
its on days like these that I remember
singing songs and drinking wine
while your eyes played games with mine

 

[snorri]

. On this occasion though I must admit I am finding it all quite amusing. I'm actually quite impressed that some of the normally silent majority have stepped up to voice their opinion in the face of adversity from the usual suspects .

You are not the only one to find the thread amusing, why shouldn't the "silent majority" step up to share the fun?

 

[theclaud]

Ah, the tired old "it's the interweb" statement. So are you saying you are no more than a keyboard warrior? Personally I wouldn't post anything on here that I would be afraid to say in the pub.Similarly, I don't normally spend time on forums with people who I wouldn't spend time with in a pub. On this occasion though I must admit I am finding it all quite amusing. I'm actually quite impressed that some of the normally silent majority have stepped up to voice their opinion in the face of adversity from the usual suspects .

Weird! You seriously go into the pub and launch straight into some unprovoked self-justifying diatribe about how you NEED to drive a car and then call anyone who questions you a fascist? I've been into some strange boozers in my time, but I'll take my chances with the star-on-the-wall brigade before I head for your local.

 

[theclaud]

I find some of the inane comments by some people on this thread pretty embarrasing and, to some large extent, rather immature and purile.
You tend to get similar on forums whereby some more 'longer establsihed' forum members (a clique?) view those 'newbies' with disdain. Not all by any means but a sizeable minority.
Anyone who dares to have an opinion that differs to theirs is always wrong - like Brandane, I wonder how they actually get the time to cycle when they seem to spend an inordinate amount of time on here bitching and passing spiteful remarks to others.

Rather amusing actually

YAWN!

 

[bianchi1]

Weird! You seriously go into the pub and launch straight into some unprovoked self-justifying diatribe about how you NEED to drive a car and then call anyone who questions you a fascist? I've been into some strange boozers in my time, but I'll take my chances with the star-on-the-wall brigade before I head for your local.

To be fair,you state that you like to 'toy' with posters online. Hardly the actions of a rational person....unless it does something for you

"I already toy with enough pointless contrarians - until one of them dies, I haven't room for another".

Classy !!!