Jumping red lights

[Mad at urage]

Please do not feed the :troll:

To true. On the basis of this thread, you are the first ever person to go on my ignore list: Anywhere, ever.

Congratulations :troll:

 

[Angelfishsolo]

To true. On the basis of this thread, you are the first ever person to go on my ignore list: Anywhere, ever.

Congratulations :troll:

Woot

 

[SW19cam]

But why break road laws? You can keep perfectly safe without doing it.

Nail on the head in regards to what our disagreement is. You can't always keep perfectly safe when following the road laws.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

You can't always keep perfectly safe anywhere full stop! It's to do with risk management.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Is jumping a red light risk management?

No. Unless to do so would save your life or the life of another.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Surely that is an arbitrary decision though, and based on the rider's perspective at the time?

A qualified yes. If you life is in danger most of the time you run a red light then it would bring your judgement into question.

 

[benb]

There us nothing wrong with "facts". However if I had to choose between facts or personal experience I would take the latter every time. eg BMW's are reported as being one of the best drivers cars on the market. Having driven several of them (3 through top end 5 series) I do not like then in the slightest. In my experience the equivalent Audi is a much better car.

You've said this plenty of times, and I must say I find it quite odd.
If people took that view, we would still think the Earth was flat, and that the sun orbited us, rather than the other way around.

The whole point of the scientific method is to remove the prejudices and biases that the observer/experimenter holds due to personal experience.

 

[benb]

Yes, but even science is biased by it's funding. It is also biased by the hypothesis these reports are written to research. Still, without science, and the fact we regularly abuse the principles of it we'd be in the dark ages, with no penicillin, etc..

True, but for the most part it works extremely well, because there are few things scientists like more than proving other scientists wrong.
So if, for example, a scientists with undeclared vested financial interests in the results, fraudulently establishes a link between MMR and autism, there are plenty of other scientists, who can try and replicate the research and say "you're full of shoot".

Not to say some bad research doesn't get through, but it's the minority.

 

[benb]

In some eyes everything is a hazard. I would say that if a crossing is clear and so are the streets on either side then there is no hazard. Slowing at an empty crossing could be said to be a greater hazard.

Might as well ignore those red lights then.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Might as well ignore those red lights then.

Slowing at empty crossing when light is green...

 

[Theseus]

Not to say some bad research doesn't get through, but it's the minority.

hmmmm .... Thompson, Rivara, Thompson springs to mind

 

[Angelfishsolo]

You've said this plenty of times, and I must say I find it quite odd.
If people took that view, we would still think the Earth was flat, and that the sun orbited us, rather than the other way around.

The whole point of the scientific method is to remove the prejudices and biases that the observer/experimenter holds due to personal experience.

I think you have me wrong. What I dislike is usage of statistics or other proofs used in isolation. Rather like an Ivory Tower academic making comments about the London riots when the real answers come from those who took part in them and who were policing the front lines.

Science hand in hand with experience is the way forward. I understand how scientific method works but it does not make it flawless in the same way the personal experience is not flawless.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

You're now taught to slow for crossings at green, and if we can find ourselves a tamed driving examiner I'm sure they could tell us you'd get a minor for not slowing. It is part of efficient driving too, if it's green it's going to change, no point in racing through.

Then things have changed since I took my test in 1991. I would never advocate racing through lights but when it is safe and clear to go through a green light I seen no reason to slow. It is rather like moving into the outer lane of dual carriageway to allow slip road traffic access even if the slip road is clear IMHO.

 

[gaz]

It is rather like moving into the outer lane of dual carriageway to allow slip road traffic access even if the slip road is clear IMHO.

Only if it's safe to do so

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Only if it's safe to do so

Er yes. Take it as read that in future statements that is implicit unless otherwise stated.