Just How Fast Could A.R.Engers Have Gone ? - Using {MTAF}

[Anthony.R.Brown]

The {MTAF} Modern Technology Advances Formula,makes it possible to make a Thread like this,and a maybe a few more will follow

I am giving the {MTAF} again below for anyone who has never seen it.

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Modern Technology,Aerodynamic Carbon Frames,Tri Bars,Carbon Disk Wheels,Tri Disk Front Wheels,Aerodynamic Helmet.

Below is The Cycling TT Modern Technology Advantage Formula... {MTAF}

A = Based on (Chris Boardman using a {MTAF} Track bike with a distance of 56.375 km)

B = and (Chris Boardman using a Normal Track bike with a distance of 49.441 km)

C = The Advantage difference in Km

D : 1 Hour/60 Minutes

E : The Advantage in Minutes

(A : 56.375 km) - (B : 49.441 km) = (C : 6.934 km)

(D : 60) / (C : 6.934 km) = (E : 8.65301413326)

Then...

(E : 8.65301413326) / (D : 60) = 0.144216902221 (for every Minute a rider,rides using a {MTAF} bike

Example if a rider rides for 60 Minutes then we calculate...

60 x 0.144216902221 = 8.65301413326 Minutes Advantage.

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So for anyone who has been living on the Planet No! Cycling for the last 50 years or so and have never heard of A.R Engers ?

Alf was known as "The King" in the UK Cycling TT community and I am sure even known in other countries for some of the rides he done,most notably was that he was the first rider to break the 50 Minute barrier for a 25 mile TT with a time of 49.24

1978 A.R Engers Unity CC 49.24 Below is a link showing some info about the King himself...

https://www.veloveritas.co.uk/2010/12/01/alf-engers-part-ii-the-record-or-i-can-go-fast-if-its-easy/

Back to this Thread what I am sure we would all like to know is just how Fast Alf could have gone using all the latest Modern Technology Advances ?

Below is the {MTAF} doing just that...

49.24 x 0.144216902221 = 7.10124026531 Minutes Advantage

49.24 - 7.10124026531 = 42.1387597347 (42.13) for a 25 mile TT

Which compared to the current Record holder below...

2018 M.Bialoblocki NOPINZ 42.58

42.58 - 42.13 = 0.45

Makes King Alf the True 25 mile TT Record holder!

What is interesting about the article above...
It says Alf could have gone four to five minutes faster using Modern Technology if he rode on the same course the R25/3H,as the current record holder Marcin Bialoblocki
Alf himself said the course is one to two minutes faster,than the E72 where he rode and broke the 50 minute barrier.

So let's say the article is correct that the R25/3H is five minutes faster because of Modern Technology,and that Alf is correct that the course is two minutes faster,then we end up with an almost identical calculation of 7 Minutes Advantage as to how fast Alf could have gone,using {MTAF} compaired to M.Bialoblocki shown below and at the beginning of this thread.

Below is the {MTAF} doing just that...
1978 A.R Engers Unity CC 49.24 - E72
49.24 x 0.144216902221 = 7.10124026531 Minutes Advantage
49.24 - 7.10124026531 = 42.1387597347 (42.13) for a 25 mile TT

Which compared to the current Record holder below...
2018 M.Bialoblocki NOPINZ 42.58 R25/3H – 11/09/2016
42.58 - 42.13 = 0.45
Makes King Alf the True 25 mile TT Record holder!


Below are some Great photo's of Alf...

https://www.ttlegends.org/men-cyclists/?mid=1106

Some of my Favourites...

Genius comes in many forms... Alf "The Badass Baker"

Anthony.R.Brown 08/03/2021

Former Chelmer CC

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I'm somewhat sceptical of purely mathematical formulae used to argue such points.

What TT result would Boardman have achieved if he had been riding Engers bike?

 

[Rocky]

Alf is a top man. He was treated badly by the authorities at the time. I knew him in his triathlon days - he always had time to advise, coach and encourage. He even gave me a few of his old Unity CC jerseys (I was a member at the time). For the first time ever, I am in 100% with @SkipdiverJohn

Alf is a star. Forget about the hypotheticals.

 

[fossyant]

Alf was a one off, but Chris was smashing records on a pretty standard bike in the 80's 90's too.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

For the first time ever, I am in 100% with @SkipdiverJohn

Shock, horror! Now back to Brexit and Coronavirus...You won't be agreeing with me then.

 

[Anthony.R.Brown]

I'm somewhat sceptical of purely mathematical formulae used to argue such points.

What TT result would Boardman have achieved if he had been riding Engers bike?

The {MTAF} is done by using the same rider,under the same conditions so it's sound!

If Boardman rode the same bike as Engers then ? but he would have done a similar time I am sure,because compared to Eddy Merckx then Chris Boardman managed to do an equal ride as the Great man,in fact a little better on an almost identical bike! judged by the World Hour Track officials,take a look at the photos below...

Below is the Hour Record link...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour_record




A.R.B

 

[Rocky]

Shock, horror! Now back to Brexit and Coronavirus...You won't be agreeing with me then.

BTW, Skippy - I think you and I also see eye to eye on the merits of steel frames!!

 

[Bonefish Blues]

BTW, Skippy - I think you and I also see eye to eye on the merits of steel frames!!

Get a room, both of you

 

[Smokin Joe]

In my rookie year I was once off at No 119 in a 25 with the great man down to start in last place a minute behind me. Thank God he was a DNS as I did not fancy being passed before I had even got back in the saddle after the start and had been dreading it all week.

Engers rode in the days when cycling was a true geek sport only indulged by the few and was remarkable in his time as the only person who could draw a crowd of a couple of hundred or more to the finish of an event that started at stupid o'clock just to see him finish.

 

[Rocky]

In my rookie year I was once off at No 119 in a 25 with the great man down to start in last place a minute behind me. Thank God he was a DNS as I did not fancy being passed before I had even got back in the saddle after the start and had been dreading it all week.

Engers rode in the days when cycling was a true geek sport only indulged by the few and was remarkable in his time as the only person who could draw a crowd of a couple of hundred or more to the finish of an event that started at stupid o'clock just to see him finish.

I did the Otley triathlon with him in 1987. We both came out of the swim together, in about 170 and 171 place. After the 25 mile hilly technical ride, I was 165th and he was 5th. I think he finished 10th overall after the run. He wasn't the best swimmer but was a pretty fast 10km runner.

 

[matticus]

Engers rode in the days when cycling was a true geek sport

Perish the thought that time-trialing would attract geeks today ...

 

[Ian H]

The {MTAF} is done by using the same rider,under the same conditions so it's sound!

You're basing everything on a sample of one man, two rides, four years apart. That wouldn't pass any kind of scientific scrutiny. Amusing, though.

 

[fossyant]

Got my ass licked by Chris and Grahame a few times. Grahame was a bit rare to turn up on Cheshire courses, but he turned up on the IOM 10TT with his washing machine bike - very strange bit of kit, fairly tatty condition, but by heck was he fast. I doubt it was the bike that helped much on a sporting course on IOM.

We did win fastest non-sponsored club after Manc Wheelers on Huddersfield CC's hill climb TT. God I hated hill climb TT's. How to make yourself very sick in 4 minutes.

Used to love the Isle of Man Cycling Week in the early 90's - got to go twice just after the TT.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Got my ass licked by Chris and Grahame a few times. Grahame was a bit rare to turn up on Cheshire courses, but he turned up on the IOM 10TT with his washing machine bike - very strange bit of kit, fairly tatty condition, but by heck was he fast. I doubt it was the bike that helped much on a sporting course on IOM.

We did win fastest non-sponsored club after Manc Wheelers on Huddersfield CC's hill climb TT. God I hated hill climb TT's. How to make yourself very sick in 4 minutes.

Used to love the Isle of Man Cycling Week in the early 90's - got to go twice just after the TT.

That's an unusual level of disclosure in the first sentence!

Rather more interesting than the equations

 

[DRM]

Without using a mathematical system, with modern bikes, modern training and nutrition if Beryl Burton was racing now, she would be constantly in the top finishers of the women’s world tour, and no doubt held Olympic gold medals too, but sadly we will never know