Latest groupset obsession

[SpokeyDokey]

I wish I could upgrade my legs and lungs from early 90's 200GS (or even Weinmann/Huret/Simplex from the early 70vs) to Dura Ace. 😂

 

[Dogtrousers]

This is one of the so many threads that have appeared over the years along the lines of "Why do people buy a more expensive bike than the one I've got?"

So bleedin' what? Their money, their choice.

^^^
This, this, a thousand times this.

We need a subforum for it.

 

[Smokin Joe]

True enough but I am interested in what people think the difference is between groupsets and what the actual difference is. I use Campagnolo and know a bit about it;

Whether you race or not a lighter bike is easier to shove up a 20% gradient than a heavier one. It might even be just because they like how the more expensive groupset looks compared with the cheaper version (Most of the world do that with clothes), and if they can afford it all well and good.

My road riding was done mostly on Campag too, a much better and more reliable brand than Shimano IMO. I never broke a single Campag component in all the years I used it, but in the relatively short time I used Shimano a rear mech and front shifter packed up and a pedal fell apart on a ride.

 

[Alex321]

True enough but I am interested in what people think the difference is between groupsets and what the actual difference is. I use Campagnolo and know a bit about it; when Graeme F-K was more active on the board he would fill in the blanks. However, despite most people using Shimano, nobody has ever been able to explain the differences beyond cable routing and some nonsense about trickle down.

At the end of the day, all we're doing is shoving a chain off a sprocket, it's not complicated.

It is more complicated than you might think.

The shaping of the teeth on the cassette makes a difference to how smooth the change is, as does the material used, and developing that does take some expense in research.

And then of course there is the number of gears, which is the main difference most of us are likely to actually notice. Each upgrade from one mechanical groupset to the next adds a sprocket. Though the Di2 versions are all 12 speed, so once you hit those, it doesn't make as much difference there.

The "nonsense about trickle down" isn't nonsense at all, but it isn't about the difference between groupsets either. It is about how things developed for the top end groupsets then get included in later iterations of the lower groupsets, so that the latest mechanical 105 is better than mechanical Dura-Ace of 10 years ago.

 

[winjim]

It is more complicated than you might think.

The shaping of the teeth on the cassette makes a difference to how smooth the change is, as does the material used, and developing that does take some expense in research.

And then of course there is the number of gears, which is the main difference most of us are likely to actually notice. Each upgrade from one mechanical groupset to the next adds a sprocket. Though the Di2 versions are all 12 speed, so once you hit those, it doesn't make as much difference there.

The "nonsense about trickle down" isn't nonsense at all, but it isn't about the difference between groupsets either. It is about how things developed for the top end groupsets then get included in later iterations of the lower groupsets, so that the latest mechanical 105 is better than mechanical Dura-Ace of 10 years ago.

So many words, so few details.

 

[Grant Fondo]

not sure there is a big obsession to be fair, a lot of people just go for 8 or 9 gears and think, 'that'll do'.

 

[Sittingduck]

When someone like me asks on here about a bike they are thinking about that doesn't contain the latest groupset. It never ceases to bemuse me to see the responses.

People talk like its a cardinal sin to buy a bike which doesn't have the latest groupset. I'm pretty sure 99% of you are not professional cyclists. How much difference does it actually make in your own real world performance? I'm not into racing. Yes being able to go a little faster is nice. But the discounts on buying at the end of the season just before the next year models come out can be significant.

Is buying a new bike with a year old groupset really that bad?

Dunno what you're on about - in my experience here , if anything people tend to sing the virtues more of mid / lower components. This sentiment far outweighs the elitist view you describe, especially on here.

 

[T4tomo]

So many words, so few details.

what details do you want, as you go up the scale the components get marginally lighter as you may get a carbon brake lever or crank arm thrown in. all function pretty similar, within the mechanical / electronic obvious divide. The weight saving is barely noticeable.

 

[C R]

So many words, so few details.

The design of the rear derailleur is simple, a spring that you pull against or let go to move up and down cassette, and a parallelogram arrangement to keep the chain parallel to the sprockets and that's it. But that's only it with friction shifting.

With indexed shifting the shifter lets go of the spring which pulls the cable until the next stop in the ratchet; you don't want the spring to pull too hard that there's bounce at the stop, and you don't want the spring too weak, or the shift will be sluggish. The spring tension and the damping provided by the friction of the cable and linkages need to balance closely to manage the dynamics of the shift, but there needs to be enough tolerance to not need readjustment after every ride.

Having worked with mechanical engineers on similar problems, the design is far from trivial.

 

[Grant Fondo]

Is buying a new bike with a year old groupset really that bad?

 

[winjim]

Whether you race or not a lighter bike is easier to shove up a 20% gradient than a heavier one. It might even be just because they like how the more expensive groupset looks compared with the cheaper version (Most of the world do that with clothes), and if they can afford it all well and good.

I don't want to take away from anyone's right to buy whatever they want*. I'm just interested in the differences in the groupset levels, both real and perceived. I find it kind of fascinating that nobody seems able to objectively quantify them.



*Well I do, but that's a matter for another forum.

what details do you want, as you go up the scale the components get marginally lighter as you may get a carbon brake lever or crank arm thrown in. all function pretty similar, within the mechanical / electronic obvious divide. The weight saving is barely noticeable.

I sincerely doubt that negligible weight saving is the only difference between groupset levels.

Having worked with mechanical engineers on similar problems, the design is far from trivial.

Ha. Yes we have managed to overcomplicate an inherently very simple concept. And a funny thing is, with the aforementioned Ultrashift 3up 5down shifting I'm sort of using it like a friction shifter. I'm not carefully selecting a specific sprocket, I'm simply wanging the shift lever about as far as feels right.

 

[boydj]

A groupset superceded by a new version doesn't suddenly become a clunker overnight - It becomes a bargain at a 50% discount.

 

[Hover Fly]

I haven’t got a groupset.
But seriously I’m just glad there is so much choice now, if you want a carbon bike with electro-gearing you can have it, if steel with a decent hub gear suits you better you can have that too, or anything in between. So much better than 40 years ago when the choice was steel with Campagnolo in two price ranges and not much real difference, or the copies of Campagnolo.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I haven’t got a groupset.
But seriously I’m just glad there is so much choice now, if you want a carbon bike with electro-gearing you can have it, if steel with a decent hub gear suits you better you can have that too, or anything in between. So much better than 40 years ago when the choice was steel with Campagnolo in two price ranges and not much real difference, or the copies of Campagnolo.

Yep, it's better than it has ever been when it comes to bikes and kit.

 

[Alex321]

So many words, so few details.

What "details" do you want?