winjim
Smash the cistern
If I'm absolutely brutally honest, it's less that I really want them and more that I'm fascinated by the way that nobody seems able to give them to me.
Latest groupset obsession
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If I'm absolutely brutally honest, it's less that I really want them and more that I'm fascinated by the way that nobody seems able to give them to me.
I'd be perfectly able to give them if I knew what you expected.
I did give enough detail about the main difference most of us would notice - namely the extra cog for each successive groupset.
Otherwise it is mainly just weight differences, and the quality of materials used - but nowadays the quality of even the lower end groupsets is good enough that I doubt most of us would really notice the difference in changing gears unless switching immediately between similar bikes with different groupsets.
Jameshow
Veteran
Could be those who buy higher spec stuff maintain it better?
Lower stuff tends to be used be commuters or weekend warriors who stuff it in the garage after a ride.
winjim
Smash the cistern
Extra sprockets are a distraction really. To use the pre-2014 Campagnolo groupsets I'm so fond of as an example, Athena, Chorus, Record and SR were all 11sp with 100% component compatibility across the range. It wasn't the number of sprockets which differentiated them. At the time they still had Centaur 10sp which I think was 'better' than Athena. Back to Shimano, I know what sort of things some of the differences are likely to be, as I say I'm mostly just weirdly intrigued by the way nobody ever seems to mention them and instead goes for nebulous subjective sort of comments about smoothness or whatever.
I do think you're right about not noticing the difference in general use, as I mentioned upthread I think a lot of the difference is probably in maintenance and serviceability which to my mind can make an 'upgrade' worth it.
I like Skol
A Minging Manc...
I have 9spd Tiagra which is just as nice to ride as my 11spd Ultegra. Go figure?
Sharky
Guru
The number of sprockets is a red herring. The only one that matters is the one you are comfortable riding in, with a couple of sprockets either side and a nice big one for the occasional big hill.
If you have more of them, there is a better chance of one being the one you are comfortable in.
Fewer sprockets means bigger jumps, so times when you will change down, then immediately feel you have gone too far down.
I like Skol
A Minging Manc...
This ^^^^ is the utter bollix that infests our sport.
Anyone that rides in the real world knows that the gear ratios are so close that we typically have to shift multiple gears to get a combination to suit the situation. 8/9/10 gears gives plenty of options. If you are a shite rider then you might blame lack of gears but the reality is that you are just shite!
Sorry to be so brutal but sometimes the truth hurts
PaulSB
Legendary Member
It never ceases to bemuse
I would have to disagree with you on this. I ride an 11 and a 12 speed and when riding rolling or flat roads would rarely need to shift more than a gear, perhaps occasionally two, but certainly not multiple gears unless I'm approaching a significant change in gradient and even then if I'm riding well multiple changes should not be needed. At an ascent one's selection should be made on the approach but granted if after the climb there is a sudden sharp descent multiple changes would be needed to avoid spinning out. Situations when multiple changes are needed are rare, perhaps when one approaches a climb like Whalley Nab or Honister for the first time where the gradient suddenly changes it would be necessary but these are rare occurrences. Rather than describe others as shite perhaps you might consider if the multiple shifts you find necessary are actually needed? In my opinion multiple shifts in most situations indicate poor riding and reading of the road.
As for the opening post and question. For myself if there is a bargain to be had I've no problem with a 12 month old group set on a 12 month old bike. When I go looking for bikes I buy what I like not what is currently in vogue but I wouldn't criticise others for spending their cash as they wish. As an example I would never buy Di2 but I'm not such a luddite I feel everyone who does is a fool. The criticism implied of those who like to go for the very latest thing is the "utter bollix that infests our sport."
This ^^^^ is the utter bollix that infests our sport.
Anyone that rides in the real world knows that the gear ratios are so close that we typically have to shift multiple gears to get a combination to suit the situation. 8/9/10 gears gives plenty of options. If you are a shite rider then you might blame lack of gears but the reality is that you are just shite!
Sorry to be so brutal but sometimes the truth hurts
I would have to disagree with you on this. I ride an 11 and a 12 speed and when riding rolling or flat roads would rarely need to shift more than a gear, perhaps occasionally two, but certainly not multiple gears unless I'm approaching a significant change in gradient and even then if I'm riding well multiple changes should not be needed. At an ascent one's selection should be made on the approach but granted if after the climb there is a sudden sharp descent multiple changes would be needed to avoid spinning out. Situations when multiple changes are needed are rare, perhaps when one approaches a climb like Whalley Nab or Honister for the first time where the gradient suddenly changes it would be necessary but these are rare occurrences. Rather than describe others as shite perhaps you might consider if the multiple shifts you find necessary are actually needed? In my opinion multiple shifts in most situations indicate poor riding and reading of the road.
As for the opening post and question. For myself if there is a bargain to be had I've no problem with a 12 month old group set on a 12 month old bike. When I go looking for bikes I buy what I like not what is currently in vogue but I wouldn't criticise others for spending their cash as they wish. As an example I would never buy Di2 but I'm not such a luddite I feel everyone who does is a fool. The criticism implied of those who like to go for the very latest thing is the "utter bollix that infests our sport."
T4tomo
Legendary Member
Being tad less harsh than @I like Skol 10 spd vs 11spf for example means that you have 1 more 2 tooth jump, which actually isn't noticeable in the real world.
"Ah if only I had bought Ultegra I would have changed from 15T to 16T but now I have jumped to 17T and its farked me up, damn this shitehouse Tiagra " said no-one ever.
For the record I have bikes with 8, 9, 10, 11 and 5 speed choices at the back.
Sharky
Guru
No one speed choices?
For shorter rides, I enjoy riding my SS more than my geared bikes!
True, I doubt I would notice the difference between 10 speed and 11. I did notice the difference between 7 speed and 11, but that is quite a jump (Altus to 105)
Nor do Shimano ones, genberally. There will be some changes most years, but not to every groupset.
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