London commuting.

[spen666]

Perhaps once the Silvertown tunnel gets built, they could restore 1 bore of the blackwall tunnel back to non-motorised use instead and provide another cycling route across the river there as an alternative...
...Although apparently they've been talking about a crossing there since 1976, so I probably won't put any money on it happening soon...

When was it ever solely for non motorised use?

 

[mjr]

When was it ever solely for non motorised use?

The original Blackwall tunnel (the current northbound, complete with bends to stop horses seeing daylight and bolting) opened in 1897. It seems quite plausible that the early motorised deathtraps weren't allowed into it, but the Thames Tunnel (Blackwall) Act 1887 doesn't seem to be online to check.

 

[Markymark]

complete with bends to stop horses seeing daylight and bolting) .

Urban myth apparently. It was more to do with worming to find the easiest rock to cut through.

 

[spen666]

The original Blackwall tunnel (the current northbound, complete with bends to stop horses seeing daylight and bolting) opened in 1897. It seems quite plausible that the early motorised deathtraps weren't allowed into it, but the Thames Tunnel (Blackwall) Act 1887 doesn't seem to be online to check.

Think you are incorrect. The evidence would seem to suggest there was no such restriction.


for example
Taken from the British History website at http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/vols43-4/pp640-645

....Most of the vehicles using the tunnel during the first weeks were dock and railway vans...

 

[mjr]

Urban myth apparently. It was more to do with worming to find the easiest rock to cut through.

I may have confused it with Rotherhithe - one of them definitely has bends that make little sense as worming.

Think you are incorrect. The evidence would seem to suggest there was no such restriction.


for example
Taken from the British History website at http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/vols43-4/pp640-645

But were those vans motorised? A "van" used to be merely a enclosed wagon:

Benz's first truck was only 1895 or thereabouts, so it would be surprising if they were that common in London just two years later. However, given the mention of railways, road-going steam traction engines might have been used.

Anyway, what was "incorrect" in saying it's plausible and the original act isn't online?

 

[spen666]

I may have confused it with Rotherhithe - one of them definitely has bends that make little sense as worming.


But were those vans motorised? A "van" used to be merely a enclosed wagon:
View attachment 384024

Benz's first truck was only 1895 or thereabouts, so it would be surprising if they were that common in London just two years later. However, given the mention of railways, road-going steam traction engines might have been used.

Anyway, what was "incorrect" in saying it's plausible and the original act isn't online?

So to suggest they were banned in legislation years before the Benz truck came out is wrong


Oh and all the 1887 legislation is online if you look for it and no it doesn't mention any ban on motor vehicles in the Blackwall Tunnel.

I would post it, but it would be a breach of copyright from the source I obtained the details from




The Blackwall Tunnel is shape it is owing to docks/ sewage pipes etc in vicinity

 

[Markymark]

I may have confused it with Rotherhithe - one of them definitely has bends that make little sense as worming.

It's a very common misconception which I was put right on recently.

 

[mjr]

So to suggest they were banned in legislation years before the Benz truck came out is wrong

Huh?

Oh and all the 1887 legislation is online if you look for it and no it doesn't mention any ban on motor vehicles in the Blackwall Tunnel.

I would post it, but it would be a breach of copyright from the source I obtained the details from

And you won't link it because ...?

 

[spen666]

Huh?


And you won't link it because ...?

Erm because it would be a breach of copyright and be a breach of employment and lead to me being dismissed- forget it you are not worth losing my job over

 

[NickNick]

Erm because it would be a breach of copyright and be a breach of employment and lead to me being dismissed- forget it you are not worth losing my job over

Doesn't that imply then that its not freely accessible online and is instead on a subscription based/paywalled site?

 

[mjr]

So to suggest they were banned in legislation years before the Benz truck came out is wrong

Trucks weren't the first motor vehicle anyway. But I still didn't suggest that. I just said it was plausible.

Erm because it would be a breach of copyright and be a breach of employment and lead to me being dismissed- forget it you are not worth losing my job over

Linking ain't a breach of copyright.

 

[spen666]

Trucks weren't the first motor vehicle anyway. But I still didn't suggest that. I just said it was plausible.


Linking ain't a breach of copyright.

Erm actually it may be - but as its on a pay site, a link would be no use to you as you could not access it in any event

Doesn't that imply then that its not freely accessible online and is instead on a subscription based/paywalled site?

Yes

 

[toffee]

Good point - I was reading it too literally. If that's the case, why don't they tunnel out ramps instead? If what I've read is correct, the tunnel is 15m down, which I think means a 5% ramp would need about 300m, putting the southern portal somewhere like Nelson Road or Romney Road and the northern portal in Millwall Park, assuming they try to avoid tunnelling under buildings or through the rail lines. Probably expensive, but more than a bridge?

Went through a tunnel in Rotterdam this year, took the bikes down the escalator. Bit hairy as it was fully loaded.
Not us by the way but the same tunnel - The Maastunnel

View: https://youtu.be/NX7B92O0bbc

 

[subaqua]

Urban myth apparently. It was more to do with worming to find the easiest rock to cut through.

theres not much rock in london strata. clay mostly which is quite easy to bore through. but that part of the river is alluvial which is rather soft .

( I am not a geology expert but currently sat in our Head office next to the tunnelling division ( well Civils) )

 

[Mile195]

When was it ever solely for non motorised use?

ooops. I appear to have opened a small can of worms.
I didn't intend to imply there was ever any restriction on motor vehicles. And indeed there probably never was - I think it was open to all before the 1960's (I saw a documentary a while ago which showed the specially built bus they had for taking bikes through the tunnel just after it was changed to motorised use only). But what I meant was, to restore use of the blackwall tunnel to non-motorised traffic as well as whatever else.
Anyway, it's a moot point because it'll never happen.
The cable car can be used by cycles which is close enough to the blackwall tunnel to ensure there is never a case for opening the blackwall tunnel to bikes. Although at £9 a go (or £1.70 if you can commit to using 10 trips over the year) I think I would find it a little frivolous to commute using it every day if I needed to go that way.