Nice HGV driver - doesn't see car.

[Debian]

You wouldn't have the forward vision to stop a fully freighted truck in time. Being so high up allows the driver to see situations developing a long way up the road and react nice and early.
This incident was, regardless of how many blind spots a DAF 95 cab has, a freak. In most similar cases, something will alert the driver to the presence of a car across their bows. It's just that in this case, something didn't. You can't extrapolate from one odd case to every truck in Britain.

That only implies the the truck must be travelling too fast. What happened to the maxim of always being able to stop in the distance you can see ahead?

Anyway, most trucks travelling on congested motorways are in convoys and the driver can see no further ahead than the back of the truck 20 feet in front no matter how high or low the cab.

 

[dondare]

A few months ago there was a pretty nasty accident on the road just by where my wife works, she didn't see the accident but she did see the wreckage.
A lorry, coming off the M25 to join the A10, had closed the gap between it and the lorry in front. Except it wasn't really a gap. It was a car that the lorry driver couldn't see and , of course, didn't feel.
Without making any wild guesses, I'd say that the situation was consistant with the car cutting in front of the lorry on the slip-road. You could say that if this is what happened, the car driver was being a bit dozy. In any case, he was crushed to death.

 

[Debian]

A few months ago there was a pretty nasty accident on the road just by where my wife works, she didn't see the accident but she did see the wreckage.
A lorry, coming off the M25 to join the A10, had closed the gap between it and the lorry in front. Except it wasn't really a gap. It was a car that the lorry driver couldn't see and , of course, didn't feel.
Without making any wild guesses, I'd say that the situation was consistant with the car cutting in front of the lorry on the slip-road. You could say that if this is what happened, the car driver was being a bit dozy. In any case, he was crushed to death.

The car driver may have been a bit dozy to do this but sometimes it's almost impossible to enter or exit a motorway or busy dual carriageway without squeezing into the gap left between two lorries in a convoy. This is particularly true on an uphill stretch of motorway or dual.

 

[dondare]

You are either trolling here or quite simply one of the most piss poor drivers this country has ever know (if you drive of course) if you don't then you are very very ignorant.

Cutting in front of lorries seems to be quite common. I wonder now many drivers who do this realize just how dangerous it is?

 

[dondare]

You are talking about something else, I'm talking about it being ''almost impossible'' to join a motorway or dual carriage way.

Well, I was talking about something else, this was traffic that was leaving the motorway and had slowed right down. But you know how it happens, a driver leaves it a bit late then has to look for a gap.

Coming on to a motorway is a bit different, because you are joining fast-moving traffic. But in either case, the gap that lorry drivers leave between themselves and the vehicle in front is going to look inviting.
Learner drivers don't get motorway training.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

That only implies the the truck must be travelling too fast. What happened to the maxim of always being able to stop in the distance you can see ahead?

... oh, forget it. When you've driven something bigger than a Nissan Micra, come back and tell me how much distance a 44 tonner needs to stop.

 

[Debian]

... oh, forget it. When you've driven something bigger than a Nissan Micra, come back and tell me how much distance a 44 tonner needs to stop.

Insulting people is always a sign that insulter is losing / has lost the argument.

For the record I've driven a wide variety of vehicles up to a 38 ton artic and three of my father in laws ran their own haulage businesses, two of which I was involved with. At 50 mph a 44 tonner will take around 220 feet to stop (assuming well maintained brakes and tyres - not always a valid assumption); this equates to a safe following distance of 365 feet. At 30mph the comparative figures are 88 feet and 175 feet.

The actual stopping distance required is irrelevant, any driver needs to drive the vehicle so that (s)he can stop well within the distance that can be seen clear ahead. If you need 100ft to stop from 30 mph then you should have a 100 minimum gap between your vehicle and the vehicle in front. Now this, as an absolute requirement may not be practicable because other vehicles, like the cars mentioned earlier will probably fill the gap to a certain extent but certainly a bigger gap is required than is to be seen between most trucks convoying on the motorway.

 

[dondare]

Insulting people is always a sign that insulter is losing / has lost the argument.

Not necessarily. Some people are just rude all of the time.

For the record I've driven a wide variety of vehicles up to a 38 ton artic and three of my father in laws ran their own haulage businesses, two of which I was involved with. At 50 mph a 44 tonner will take around 220 feet to stop (assuming well maintained brakes and tyres - not always a valid assumption); this equates to a safe following distance of 365 feet. At 30mph the comparative figures are 88 feet and 175 feet.

Are there actually any forum members here who haven't driven trucks?

The actual stopping distance required is irrelevant, any driver needs to drive the vehicle so that (s)he can stop well within the distance that can be seen clear ahead. If you need 100ft to stop from 30 mph then you should have a 100 minimum gap between your vehicle and the vehicle in front. Now this, as an absolute requirement may not be practicable because other vehicles, like the cars mentioned earlier will probably fill the gap to a certain extent but certainly a bigger gap is required than is to be seen between most trucks convoying on the motorway.

If you leave a gap of any length on a motorway, someone will slot into it. What's needed right now is a way that lorry drivers can tell when this has happened.
A longer term solution could be to find an alternative to lorries for moving freight, or perhaps an alternative to cars for moving people.
Taking all factors into account it would make a lot of sense to pack trains (which are much safer than cars) with passengers and leave the motorways for freight.
Only trouble is that there is no way that 40 ton vehicles designed for long-distance driving can be used safely in towns, most of which still have a medieval street plan.

 

[dondare]

Yes, Debian.

Not all cyclists are tough and fearless.
Not all pedestrians are even awake.
Not all motorists have an attention span as long as their journey.
Not all truck drivers have an IQ of 133.

You expect too much from people.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Insulting people is always a sign that insulter is losing / has lost the argument. has been awake for eighteen hours, has just got in from a gig and is really to tired to formulate a proper argument.

But fair enough, I didn't realise you'd driven artics before. Although it's not obvious from the tone of some of your posts.

For the record I've driven a wide variety of vehicles up to a 38 ton artic and three of my father in laws ran their own haulage businesses, two of which I was involved with. At 50 mph a 44 tonner will take around 220 feet to stop (assuming well maintained brakes and tyres - not always a valid assumption); this equates to a safe following distance of 365 feet. At 30mph the comparative figures are 88 feet and 175 feet.

The actual stopping distance required is irrelevant, any driver needs to drive the vehicle so that (s)he can stop well within the distance that can be seen clear ahead. If you need 100ft to stop from 30 mph then you should have a 100 minimum gap between your vehicle and the vehicle in front. Now this, as an absolute requirement may not be practicable because other vehicles, like the cars mentioned earlier will probably fill the gap to a certain extent but certainly a bigger gap is required than is to be seen between most trucks convoying on the motorway.

I'm not - and never have been - disputing that artics need a larger gap to stop. (And, incidentally, one of my pet hates is those lorry drivers who drive three feet off the back of the vehicle in front.) But what I am saying is that being high up in the cab gives you a much better field of view and makes it far easier to read the road for much further ahead. This is not a function of driving too fast for the conditions, it's simply a way to constantly plan ahead. And the further ahed you can plan the better a driver you are, all else being equal.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Not necessarily. Some people are just rude all of the time.

I don't think that's fair. Even those who disagree with me on every issue ever would struggle to say I was "rude all of the time".

 

[Riding in Circles]

If trucks slowed down to increase the gap every time some numpty in a car pulled in front of them then they would never get where they are going.

 

[dondare]

I don't think that's fair. Even those who disagree with me on every issue ever would struggle to say I was "rude all of the time".

I wasn't meaning to imply that about you specifically, I took his comment "Insulting people is always a sign that insulter is losing / has lost the argument" as a sweeping generalization that is not always valid.
No offence intended.

 

[GrasB]

On a slight tangent when pulling onto a motorway between vehicles which are fairly close what would lorry drivers prefer:

1. A car in front of them at a higher speed & pulling away from your lorry as the car joins the carriage way
2. A car in front of you holding the same speed as your lorry
3. A car pulling in tight behind the vehicle in front but being caught by your lorry

 

[Rhythm Thief]

I wasn't meaning to imply that about you specifically, I took his comment "Insulting people is always a sign that insulter is losing / has lost the argument" as a sweeping generalization that is not always valid.
No offence intended.

Fair enough. Just making sure.