On street vehicle charging points

[DRHysted]

It's not that long ago that just having any car was the exception rather than the rule. Thinking back to when I was a kid perhaps there would be one car in a family. Now there's families with more cars than drivers.

We are in the very early days of EV production. The landscape will look very different in 10 years time plenty of secondhand EVs around.

You’re talking about 25 to 30 years ago, I should hope that EV cars have made great improvements by 2040! At which point I should be retired.
To be honest with you I did envision my diesel burner being my last car, as such I took what to me was a massive loan (a small fraction of the cost of an EV capable of towing 1.6 tonnes) and bought as new as I could with a low a mileage as I could find, I’ve still got years left paying it off.
Normally I’d spend between 2 to 3 grand and only replace when it cannot be repaired. I can’t ever imagine an EV that is still usable coming into that price range, so I envision driving taking a Uturn and becoming a status symbol again. Just hope that there is public transportation systems in place by then.

 

[oldworld]

Battery life of 8 years doesn't seem very good. The battery is in effect the major component. Similar to the engine in an internal combustion car. I'd expect it to last for many years.
I'd love to go electric but with my budget and needs for a car it'll need them to be below the price now being charged by many thousands.
I'm very grateful to those who are buying them now. The cars will be improved from their experience.
I do wonder though if, like the diesels we were all encouraged to buy, that in 10 years time the EV's will be ousted by hydrogen vehicles.

 

[gzoom]

I do wonder though if, like the diesels we were all encouraged to buy, that in 10 years time the EV's will be ousted by hydrogen vehicles.

Not unless someone finds an easy way to handle a fuel that needs to be stored at 10,000 PSI!!

Our EV is already 4 years old, battery is absolutely fine and I suspect the battery will still be fine in 14 years.....the rest of the car is a different story .

 

[BoldonLad]

My electric bill for the car is about 25% of the petrol I put in my 1.2L petrol. There's less to go wrong with an EV as well.

Batteries can be analysed and dodgy cells replaced - it's not that common though so it's pretty rare. I daresay with extra numbers there will be more firms offering this.

How would that compare if Petrol were taxed at the same rate as electricity? (ie VAT only), or, alternatively, if Electricity was taxed at the same rate at Petrol?

 

[cougie uk]

How would that compare if Petrol were taxed at the same rate as electricity? (ie VAT only), or, alternatively, if Electricity was taxed at the same rate at Petrol?

Not a clue. I'm sure eventually we will pay by the mile for road use if we lose the petrol revenue and that seems fair enough.

In the meantime I'll keep banking the savings.

 

[cougie uk]

Battery life of 8 years doesn't seem very good. The battery is in effect the major component. Similar to the engine in an internal combustion car. I'd expect it to last for many years.
I'd love to go electric but with my budget and needs for a car it'll need them to be below the price now being charged by many thousands.
I'm very grateful to those who are buying them now. The cars will be improved from their experience.
I do wonder though if, like the diesels we were all encouraged to buy, that in 10 years time the EV's will be ousted by hydrogen vehicles.

Nobody is saying that batteries only last 8 years - that's your warrant life.

It'd be like me saying that a Vauxhall only lasts three years as that's what the warranty is for.

Actually we did have one that basically did last 3 years. Never buying a Vauxhall again !

 

[DRM]

It only dropped because at that stage there was a surfeit of fuel. If overall demand drops, less gets made, the price goes up.

No it won't because it'll take decades after the ban for for every ICE car to eventually die a natural death and be scrapped, also military vehicles will never ever become EV's, so we will still need petrol and diesel, LPG is a by product of fossil fuels so they will need to keep refining oil in order to produce it

 

[DRM]

Nobody is saying that batteries only last 8 years - that's your warrant life.

It'd be like me saying that a Vauxhall only lasts three years as that's what the warranty is for.

Actually we did have one that basically did last 3 years. Never buying a Vauxhall again !

Wrong, the actual life expectancy of a lead acid battery is 5 years, all lead-acid traction batteries have a 5 year sliding warranty, any thing above that is a bonus, a Li-Ion battery is around 500 cycles, anything over that is sheer pot luck!

 

[DRM]

How would that compare if Petrol were taxed at the same rate as electricity? (ie VAT only), or, alternatively, if Electricity was taxed at the same rate at Petrol?

Exactly, just like diesel, once upon a time most drivers would rather stick pins in their eyes than own a diesel car, then they became popular as it was around 40p per litre, suddenly the government realised this and brought out the fuel escalator to bang the price up, watch this space, car charging WILL be taxed heavily in one form or another

 

[gzoom]

Wrong, the actual life expectancy of a lead acid battery is 5 years, all lead-acid traction batteries have a 5 year sliding warranty, any thing above that is a bonus, a Li-Ion battery is around 500 cycles, anything over that is sheer pot luck!

Average motorist in the UK covers 7k miles per year. The battery pack on current EVs will out last the rest of the car.

Lithium ion cells aren't effected by calendar life, I have a Garmin Edge 605 that still holds charge fine after 10 years.

https://insideevs.com/news/429818/tesla-model-s-x-battery-capacity-degradation/

 

[DRM]

Average motorist in the UK covers 7k miles per year. The battery pack on current EVs will out last the rest of the car.

Lithium ion cells aren't effected by calendar life, I have a Garmin Edge 605 that still holds charge fine after 10 years.

https://insideevs.com/news/429818/tesla-model-s-x-battery-capacity-degradation/

that's what the warranty is worked out on, average low mileage use, it doesn't matter how you dress it up 500 cycles and that's your lot, you are mistaking time with cycles, the trouble with Li-Ion is when they go flat the range falls of a cliff, from just enough to totally dead in no time with nothing imbetween, an iPhone/Android phone/Laptop battery is considered dead at 85% capacity left in it, with no useful use left

 

[gzoom]

that's what the warranty is worked out on, average low mileage use, it doesn't matter how you dress it up 500 cycles and that's your lot, you are mistaking time with cycles,

500 cycles on our current EV is 100k miles at 200 miles per charge. Currently at 40k miles (200 cycles) degredation is at 5% and very low after initial drop, it would seem very unlikely over the next 60k it will degrade to 15%.

You appear to make the assumption battery packs in EVs behave like phone/laptop batteries.

Cell chemistry is very different in EV packs versus consumer electronics, as is the BMS. Both of these things are vital for battery longevity.

EV battery packs can also cycle at 1C+ (3C charging and 5C discharging), try that on a phone/latop battery and it'll literally explode.

 

[DRM]

They aren't fork-lifts. Read the article about C&C Cars in Cornwall. They are constantly charging and have had no appreciable drop in range after years of use. The key thing they did notice was that maintenance was much much cheaper. Brakes wore out less, clutches didn't fail etc. Here's their post on Wizzy, their first electric taxi:-



Tesla are already working on a million mile battery. EV Battery lifespan isn't a problem. It's only a problem for EVS that are now fairly old, and which were developed in the youth of the modern EV.

You keep saying they aren't forklifts, how many times do I have to say it, the batteries the motors, the gearbox, the electronics, the power electronics, the chargers are identical, other than operating voltage, explain how a cars traction system differs from an FLT please

 

[DRM]

500 cycles on our current EV is 100k miles at 200 miles per charge. Currently at 40k miles (200 cycles) degredation is at 5% and very low after initial drop, it would seem very unlikely over the next 60k it will degrade to 15%.

You appear to make the assumption battery packs in EVs behave like phone/laptop batteries.

Cell chemistry is very different in EV packs versus consumer electronics, as is the BMS. Both of these things are vital for battery longevity.

OK my argument all along that no-one has picked up on is, for commercial use they are useless, my current van has 110,000 on it at 4.5 years old, if it was an EV it's now scrap, yet the Diesel engine in it runs like new, I think it would easily double what it has on it, when it goes back it will be sold and be used by someone else, if it was an EV it would on a one way trip to the scrapyard not the auctions, and a Li-Ion battery is a Li-Ion battery regardless of what it's used in

 

[gzoom]

You keep saying they aren't forklifts, how many times do I have to say it, the batteries the motors, the gearbox, the electronics, the power electronics, the chargers are identical, other than operating voltage, explain how a cars traction system differs from an FLT please

How about milk floats......We all know EVs are just like them

View: https://youtu.be/_NnNEuxqoPo


Maybe towing a ForkLift .

View: https://youtu.be/RRbgChhJFCs